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> Having a job is a moral obligation and making kids work is good for them. The second part of this sentence is not obviously false to me. Kids working exploit

> Having a job is a moral obligation and making kids work is good for them. The second part of this sentence is not obviously false to me. Kids working exploitative & dangerous jobs, yes that's bad. Kids being allowed to work in general, I think is good. I like Simon Sarris's take on this, from: https://simonsarris.substack.com/p/the-most-precious-resource-is-agency https://simonsarris.substack.com/p/the-most-precious-resourc... > I find it striking just how early, and how varied, the avenues were that allowed one to pivot off-script, to do something differently than everyone else. For a 13 year old today, what is the equivalent of being a telegraph office boy, where he can learn technology while contributing? What about for a 16 year old? 21 year old? What is today’s equivalent to being a studio apprentice of Verrocchio?

kayodelycaon 3y ago
I happen to mostly agree. You’re picking one sentence I used as context for the rest of my comment. Regarding the telegram office, I’m pretty sure 13 year olds have a lot more schoolwork than they did in 1850. I frequently had days I spent all day in school and spent most of the night on homework.
- jhbadger 3y ago
  Most 13-year olds in the 19th century (including Andrew Carnegie and Thomas Edison, both telegraph boys in their youth) had literally no schoolwork. High school wasn't a common thing then and most people only went to grade school to learn how to read and write and do basic math. Carnegie went to grade school in Scotland before his family moved to America, and Edison was only given a basic home school education by his mother. I'm not saying that was good, but comparing 13-year olds then and today is hard. 13-year olds then were basically already adults.
  - kayodelycaon 3y ago
    Yeah. I know. I’ve read a lot about the 1800s, specifically squared-rigged warships. Midshipmen were very young. Taking children into battle on naval vessels… it was a very different time.
wvenable 3y ago
I absolutely agree. But I think existing laws already struck this balance. But what we're talking about now is kids cleaning the floors of slaughterhouses at night.
lowbloodsugar 3y ago
>The second part of this sentence is not obviously false to me. It's systemic racism and inequality. As long as we pretend everyone has equal opportunities, then we can make simple claims as you do. >For a 13 year old today, what is the equivalent of being a telegraph office boy The internet. Youtube. Udemy. MIT free courses. Of course the claims will be about only the most positively wistful jobs of a bygone era, but strangely not "For a 13 year old today, what is the equivalent of dying inside a chimney?" because these jobs are they chimney kind, not the paper-boy kind.

kayodelycaon 3y ago

I happen to mostly agree. You’re picking one sentence I used as context for the rest of my comment. Regarding the telegram office, I’m pretty sure 13 year olds have a lot more schoolwork than they did in 1850. I frequently had days I spent all day in school and spent most of the night on homework.

jhbadger 3y ago
Most 13-year olds in the 19th century (including Andrew Carnegie and Thomas Edison, both telegraph boys in their youth) had literally no schoolwork. High school wasn't a common thing then and most people only went to grade school to learn how to read and write and do basic math. Carnegie went to grade school in Scotland before his family moved to America, and Edison was only given a basic home school education by his mother. I'm not saying that was good, but comparing 13-year olds then and today is hard. 13-year olds then were basically already adults.
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  Yeah. I know. I’ve read a lot about the 1800s, specifically squared-rigged warships. Midshipmen were very young. Taking children into battle on naval vessels… it was a very different time.

wvenable 3y ago

I absolutely agree. But I think existing laws already struck this balance. But what we're talking about now is kids cleaning the floors of slaughterhouses at night.

lowbloodsugar 3y ago

>The second part of this sentence is not obviously false to me. It's systemic racism and inequality. As long as we pretend everyone has equal opportunities, then we can make simple claims as you do. >For a 13 year old today, what is the equivalent of being a telegraph office boy The internet. Youtube. Udemy. MIT free courses. Of course the claims will be about only the most positively wistful jobs of a bygone era, but strangely not "For a 13 year old today, what is the equivalent of dying inside a chimney?" because these jobs are they chimney kind, not the paper-boy kind.