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> When an European soccer fan shouts "monkey" to a dark skinned African or Latin American player of an adversary team there is a lot more than free speech at pl

> When an European soccer fan shouts "monkey" to a dark skinned African or Latin American player of an adversary team there is a lot more than free speech at play are you saying the african soccer player is lower in rank than some idiot fan? im also sure barack obama was much in a bad power dynamic to people that call him monkey president? those guys have all the institutional power, ey?

diego_moita 3y ago
What I am saying is "this is a complex issue that should be deeply understood before rushing to easy ideological solutions". The problem is that, like my children doing math, no one wants to understand problems. Ideological solutions that fit in memes are much easier.
- Towaway69 3y ago
  I do wonder how humans made it this far. 60000 years and speech seemed to work fine. Now it becomes a complex issue needing complicated laws that restrict instead of allowing more speech. One is constantly checking which terminology one is now allowed to use for minorities without offending. Humans have inbuilt biases that we won't be able to get rid off with more laws. Ironically if we look closely at AIs, they are amplifying those biases - remember Facebooks face recognition software that incorrectly identified some minorities as primates? It wasn't AI at fault, it was the bias in the training set.
  - diego_moita 3y ago
    Bullshit. For most of those 60000 years speech didn't work "fine" at all. The majority of people that lived in those times where ruled by empires that had nothing resembling free speech or the rule of the law. You wouldn't even think of bad things against the King or Church in Europe before the 19th century. Same goes to Middle Eastern Empires, Chinese dynasties, the Japanese emperors or Shoguns, etc. Even less than think you'd say anything to offend established powers. Yes, even the Roman Republic was not democratic or free for all. And your "inbuilt biases" are just a justification for sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination created by specific historic circumstances. There is no "inbuilt" basis for discrimination.
    - redeeman 3y ago
      > And your "inbuilt biases" are just a justification for sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination created by specific historic circumstances. There is no "inbuilt" basis for discrimination. bullshit, a 100% plain "non-tainted" human sees a sabretooth tiger, you can be pretty damn sure some big biases sets in. see another human, and biases do too, the more they differ, the more the biases sets in, and this goes for more or less anything, not just sex, "race", but more or less anything. Humans however, are pretty smart, and what people generally call racism today, has mostly nothing to do with builtin biases, like when someone is called a monkey for being black. In many cases, people who are labelled racists today arent even racist. I would recommend watching the southpark episode regarding the town flag for further education on this subject (yes, really, I dare you)

diego_moita 3y ago

What I am saying is "this is a complex issue that should be deeply understood before rushing to easy ideological solutions". The problem is that, like my children doing math, no one wants to understand problems. Ideological solutions that fit in memes are much easier.

Towaway69 3y ago
I do wonder how humans made it this far. 60000 years and speech seemed to work fine. Now it becomes a complex issue needing complicated laws that restrict instead of allowing more speech. One is constantly checking which terminology one is now allowed to use for minorities without offending. Humans have inbuilt biases that we won't be able to get rid off with more laws. Ironically if we look closely at AIs, they are amplifying those biases - remember Facebooks face recognition software that incorrectly identified some minorities as primates? It wasn't AI at fault, it was the bias in the training set.
- diego_moita 3y ago
  Bullshit. For most of those 60000 years speech didn't work "fine" at all. The majority of people that lived in those times where ruled by empires that had nothing resembling free speech or the rule of the law. You wouldn't even think of bad things against the King or Church in Europe before the 19th century. Same goes to Middle Eastern Empires, Chinese dynasties, the Japanese emperors or Shoguns, etc. Even less than think you'd say anything to offend established powers. Yes, even the Roman Republic was not democratic or free for all. And your "inbuilt biases" are just a justification for sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination created by specific historic circumstances. There is no "inbuilt" basis for discrimination.
  - redeeman 3y ago
    > And your "inbuilt biases" are just a justification for sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination created by specific historic circumstances. There is no "inbuilt" basis for discrimination. bullshit, a 100% plain "non-tainted" human sees a sabretooth tiger, you can be pretty damn sure some big biases sets in. see another human, and biases do too, the more they differ, the more the biases sets in, and this goes for more or less anything, not just sex, "race", but more or less anything. Humans however, are pretty smart, and what people generally call racism today, has mostly nothing to do with builtin biases, like when someone is called a monkey for being black. In many cases, people who are labelled racists today arent even racist. I would recommend watching the southpark episode regarding the town flag for further education on this subject (yes, really, I dare you)