4 ms·

Catering to the lowest type of anything in business is always a recipe for bad user experience. Also, I seem to remember you telling me that you use a computer

by dcurtis 18y ago

Catering to the lowest type of anything in business is always a recipe for bad user experience. Also, I seem to remember you telling me that you use a computer with a resolution of 800x600. If you also use IE6, then you are, in fact, the lowest technical user on the internet that companies try to support. And that slows progress and means you're part of the problem.

edw519 18y ago
always? Here we go again, dcurtis. If I remember right, we never reached a resolution (oops) in that discussion and we probably won't now. (By the way, I did enjoy that conversation.) Yes, I use 800 x 600. I can't see anything larger than that. Period. I already graduated to 19" monitors everywhere and I still need 800 x 600. And many of the 100 million or so people in my age group are in the same boat. If I have to scroll horizontally, then I don't come back to that site. (Interestingly, I have never had that problem here at hn; maybe pg is on to something - delivering to his users the way they want to see it.) Over 90% of the people I work with are stuck in cubicles at work on IE, half of them on IE6. They can't change. Their administrators have them locked down. It's not their fault. You may choose to abandon these people (sometimes by subtly declaring that they're not part of your demographic); I don't. You may think that I slow progress and am "part of the problem". My customers say otherwise. AFAIC, their vote has priority over yours. That's the whole point.
- dcurtis 18y ago
  I understand your problem and I empathize with you. But you are at the very, very low end of the experience curve. It makes sense for me, as a designer, to cater to the largest number of people possible, and to provide them the best experience I can. If I continue to cater to the outliers, like yourself, or like a friend of mine who runs a 3560x2056 screen, then I am doing a disservice to the largest segment of my market-- the average user. If IE 6 were to go extinct, I would be able to provide a better experience for a larger number of people. If no one used 800x600, I would be able to provide a better experience to a larger number of people. Therefore, I will try as hard as I can to make both of those things true. Even if it makes your experience slightly less enjoyable; there will be collateral damage.
  - edw519 18y ago
    cater to the outliers Yes, catering to outliers sounds like a compromise most wouldn't want to make. All I'm suggesting is that we use our smarts and cleverness to find a way to deliver to outliers without catering to them and without breaking the bank. Now, that would be a real paradigm shift. (Oooh, I can't believe I said that.)
    - dcurtis 18y ago
      Ah, now I agree totally with that. And I've found that you can really easily make something that sort of works OK in IE6 most of the time if you follow all of these suggestions: http://anthonyshort.com.au/blog/comments/how-to-get-cross-browser-compatibility-everytime/ http://anthonyshort.com.au/blog/comments/how-to-get-cross-br...
    - fauigerzigerk 18y ago
      That paradigm shift is already in full swing. It's called Flash & Silverlight. Do you like it?
      - unalone 18y ago
        Flash and Silverlight break default browser functionality, they're very hard to make flexible past a certain point, they are slow, they require separate plugins, and they don't add anything in terms of usability. In fact, they very often detract from usability. That's not a good shift.
        fauigerzigerk 18y ago
        But that's exactly the result of not dumping old browsers. If developing for the browser drags productivity down as much as it does, mainstream developers will dump the browser, or - more realistically - reduce the browser to a plugin installation platform.
        unalone 18y ago
- deleted 18y ago
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by dcurtis 18y ago

edw519 18y ago

always? Here we go again, dcurtis. If I remember right, we never reached a resolution (oops) in that discussion and we probably won't now. (By the way, I did enjoy that conversation.) Yes, I use 800 x 600. I can't see anything larger than that. Period. I already graduated to 19" monitors everywhere and I still need 800 x 600. And many of the 100 million or so people in my age group are in the same boat. If I have to scroll horizontally, then I don't come back to that site. (Interestingly, I have never had that problem here at hn; maybe pg is on to something - delivering to his users the way they want to see it.) Over 90% of the people I work with are stuck in cubicles at work on IE, half of them on IE6. They can't change. Their administrators have them locked down. It's not their fault. You may choose to abandon these people (sometimes by subtly declaring that they're not part of your demographic); I don't. You may think that I slow progress and am "part of the problem". My customers say otherwise. AFAIC, their vote has priority over yours. That's the whole point.

dcurtis 18y ago
I understand your problem and I empathize with you. But you are at the very, very low end of the experience curve. It makes sense for me, as a designer, to cater to the largest number of people possible, and to provide them the best experience I can. If I continue to cater to the outliers, like yourself, or like a friend of mine who runs a 3560x2056 screen, then I am doing a disservice to the largest segment of my market-- the average user. If IE 6 were to go extinct, I would be able to provide a better experience for a larger number of people. If no one used 800x600, I would be able to provide a better experience to a larger number of people. Therefore, I will try as hard as I can to make both of those things true. Even if it makes your experience slightly less enjoyable; there will be collateral damage.
- edw519 18y ago
  cater to the outliers Yes, catering to outliers sounds like a compromise most wouldn't want to make. All I'm suggesting is that we use our smarts and cleverness to find a way to deliver to outliers without catering to them and without breaking the bank. Now, that would be a real paradigm shift. (Oooh, I can't believe I said that.)
  - dcurtis 18y ago
    Ah, now I agree totally with that. And I've found that you can really easily make something that sort of works OK in IE6 most of the time if you follow all of these suggestions: http://anthonyshort.com.au/blog/comments/how-to-get-cross-browser-compatibility-everytime/ http://anthonyshort.com.au/blog/comments/how-to-get-cross-br...
  - fauigerzigerk 18y ago
    That paradigm shift is already in full swing. It's called Flash & Silverlight. Do you like it?
    - unalone 18y ago
      Flash and Silverlight break default browser functionality, they're very hard to make flexible past a certain point, they are slow, they require separate plugins, and they don't add anything in terms of usability. In fact, they very often detract from usability. That's not a good shift.
      - fauigerzigerk 18y ago
        But that's exactly the result of not dumping old browsers. If developing for the browser drags productivity down as much as it does, mainstream developers will dump the browser, or - more realistically - reduce the browser to a plugin installation platform.
        unalone 18y ago
deleted 18y ago
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