8 ms·

Exclusive: Ministers had ‘chilling’ secret unit to curb lockdown dissent

72 points by electic 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
scrlk 3y ago
I'm not surprised at all. A few months back it was revealed that the Army's information warfare unit was involved in monitoring lockdown critics. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/29/armys-information-warfare-unit-monitored-covid-lockdown-critics/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/29/armys-informatio... https://archive.is/WkAqc https://archive.is/WkAqc
- smeej 3y ago
  If anything, what surprises me is that it's able to be confirmed so specifically and confidently this soon. At least in the U.S., the "public health emergency" "ended" less than a month ago!
- turbobooster 3y ago
  [dead]
1827163 3y ago
From the article: “This is not what ought to happen in a free country.” What do you expect from a country that's been a police state for the last 23 years or so. With the introduction of the RIP Act in 2000, which compels those with encrypted data to divulge the keys, under penalty of imprisonment. From that, I could tell something had gone very wrong with our government, even back then. The RIP Act opened the door to government policing of what information we are reading. Because you could no longer encrypt your data to hide it from the state's prying eyes. It was a watershed moment. And that point was where I could say the UK is no longer a free country anymore.
- timrichard 3y ago
  Interesting to see what happens to the current campaign against encryption, in light of them trying to keep WhatsApp messages from an enquiry for the sake of their privacy.
doitLP 3y ago
https://archive.ph/Svc9i https://archive.ph/Svc9i
LatteLazy 3y ago
>Many of the issues being raised were valid at the time and have since been proven to be well-founded. No, they were not. More evidence of the Fox-ification of the Telegraph, a once respectable source of news...
h2odragon 3y ago
Now all we need to do is police the dissent caused by the speech restrictions; and counteract it by having media voices repeat loudly and often that such concerns are based on (mis|dis|mal)information; and everything is fixed and everyone happy, right?
cynicalsecurity 3y ago
Surprise surprise, government can mobilise police/army to protect their citizens. Who would have thought. Come on, no one knew if it was a new black death or just a harmless virus. The hysteria about government taking valid steps in an unclear situation is childish.
- alphanullmeric 3y ago
  [flagged]
- nblog 3y ago
  This would be more credible if BoJo (and many other elites) had not been partying while the government "protected" its citizens.
- diogocp 3y ago
  The situation is unclear and no one knows what is going on, so dissent from the government's valid and totally non-hysterical steps will not be tolerated.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  One issue is that it's a political decision on which citizens were protected. Should we close schools semi-indefinitely to protect the elderly after vaccines were widely available (like in SF)? Shutting down debates on these issues was and is controversial.
  - fmajid 3y ago
    The elderly vote Conservative, almost by definition. QED.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      Not women, and they far out survive men. QED?
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
Eumenes 3y ago
The UK is an absolute mess in regards to this stuff ... from anti monarchy protestors being arrested, to journalists questioning the Ukraine narrative being arrested (https://thegrayzone.com/2023/05/30/journalist-kit-klarenberg-british-police-interrogated-grayzone/ https://thegrayzone.com/2023/05/30/journalist-kit-klarenberg...)
postingawayonhn 3y ago
It might be concerning, but this isn't some great exclusive. The establishment was reported in March 2020. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/09/cross-whitehall-unit-coronavirus-disinformation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/09/cross-whitehal...
wsc981 3y ago
The Netherlands had a similar unit; I’d imagine other countries had as well. In The Netherlands it’s mostly a secret which people were part of the unit, though a couple have been discovered and perhaps there will be more to come.
chimprich 3y ago
I can't read the article because it's paywalled (and I'm unwilling to give the Barclay family any cash) but I'm very sceptical about the accuracy of the article given the Telegraph's history of printing lies and nonsense about the pandemic. See for example: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55676037 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55676037 Does HN have any guidelines about paywalled articles? I assume a large proportion of people commenting here won't have read the article.
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
It's really quite amusing to see The Telegraph trying to claim the moral high ground over government interference and disinformation. For those who don't know, The Telegraph is an extreme right media outlet which regularly publishes absolutely batshit denialist nonsense about Covid, climate change, immigration, and all the usual hits. It's a Q drop for the UK's upper class. Not coincidentally it used to employ Boris Johnson, and while PM he allegedly said that it was his real boss. https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-refers-telegraph-real-boss-dominic-cummings-claims/ https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-refers-telegraph-re... So here we are with more than 200,000 dead and more than 2 million with Long Covid. Good job, Telegraph writers. I hope you're all proud of your "journalism."
phtrivier 3y ago
Governements are in a weird place on those fronts. Either they don't try to interfere with what happens on social media, and they are criticized for not protecting people, and also have to deal with the consequences (I'd argue that misinformation about a disease will have health consequences. Maybe they're overedtimated, though ?) Alternatively, they have to try and "police" social media, which can not look like anything but policing free speech, which, especially in times of uncertainty, is bound to backfire. I wonder if people would be concerned too if the social media platforms were, in the end, ruled by juges rather than governments? It would still be a "them", but at least it would not be the same "them". Or would the social networks start to revolt against judges ? (Yes, I know, it will look a lot like separation of powers ((c) Montesquieu), and like we're going to reinvent "judges" and "the laws of free press from the late 1800s" any time soon.)
logifail 3y ago
> no one knew if it was a new black death or just a harmless virus When did "no one know"? There was already data in early May 2020 showing risk by age group https://twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1260542469256753153 https://twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1260542469256753153
- wsc981 3y ago
  Yep, I looked at Out World in Data [0] at the time and from the numbers it was very clear to me that it was a disease that was mainly risky for old people and people with co-morbidities. At that point it was clear to me that most people wouldn't need to be very scared. --- [0]: https://ourworldindata.org https://ourworldindata.org
  - AndrewDucker 3y ago
    I was scared because I had elderly relatives. The idea that we should only worry about ourselves feels deeply immoral to me.
    - friend_and_foe 3y ago
      What about the idea that we should do every panicky thing we are told, including shun loved ones and demand people be rounded up or locked in their houses forcibly? Does that feel deeply immoral to you?
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  The people that just went along with it didn't know. They stuck their fingers in their ears and called the rest of us bad people. At least we know who they are now.
donohoe 3y ago
This is from The Telegraph so you’ll find many truthful things that are twisted or presented in a way to push their narrative. See the Twitter Files coverage for another example etc.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

72 points by electic 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

I'm not surprised at all. A few months back it was revealed that the Army's information warfare unit was involved in monitoring lockdown critics. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/29/armys-information-warfare-unit-monitored-covid-lockdown-critics/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/29/armys-informatio... https://archive.is/WkAqc https://archive.is/WkAqc

smeej 3y ago
If anything, what surprises me is that it's able to be confirmed so specifically and confidently this soon. At least in the U.S., the "public health emergency" "ended" less than a month ago!
turbobooster 3y ago
[dead]

1827163 3y ago

From the article: “This is not what ought to happen in a free country.” What do you expect from a country that's been a police state for the last 23 years or so. With the introduction of the RIP Act in 2000, which compels those with encrypted data to divulge the keys, under penalty of imprisonment. From that, I could tell something had gone very wrong with our government, even back then. The RIP Act opened the door to government policing of what information we are reading. Because you could no longer encrypt your data to hide it from the state's prying eyes. It was a watershed moment. And that point was where I could say the UK is no longer a free country anymore.

timrichard 3y ago
Interesting to see what happens to the current campaign against encryption, in light of them trying to keep WhatsApp messages from an enquiry for the sake of their privacy.

doitLP 3y ago

https://archive.ph/Svc9i https://archive.ph/Svc9i

LatteLazy 3y ago

>Many of the issues being raised were valid at the time and have since been proven to be well-founded. No, they were not. More evidence of the Fox-ification of the Telegraph, a once respectable source of news...

h2odragon 3y ago

Now all we need to do is police the dissent caused by the speech restrictions; and counteract it by having media voices repeat loudly and often that such concerns are based on (mis|dis|mal)information; and everything is fixed and everyone happy, right?

cynicalsecurity 3y ago

Surprise surprise, government can mobilise police/army to protect their citizens. Who would have thought. Come on, no one knew if it was a new black death or just a harmless virus. The hysteria about government taking valid steps in an unclear situation is childish.

alphanullmeric 3y ago
[flagged]
nblog 3y ago
This would be more credible if BoJo (and many other elites) had not been partying while the government "protected" its citizens.
diogocp 3y ago
The situation is unclear and no one knows what is going on, so dissent from the government's valid and totally non-hysterical steps will not be tolerated.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
One issue is that it's a political decision on which citizens were protected. Should we close schools semi-indefinitely to protect the elderly after vaccines were widely available (like in SF)? Shutting down debates on these issues was and is controversial.
- fmajid 3y ago
  The elderly vote Conservative, almost by definition. QED.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    Not women, and they far out survive men. QED?
flagrant_taco 3y ago

Eumenes 3y ago

The UK is an absolute mess in regards to this stuff ... from anti monarchy protestors being arrested, to journalists questioning the Ukraine narrative being arrested (https://thegrayzone.com/2023/05/30/journalist-kit-klarenberg-british-police-interrogated-grayzone/ https://thegrayzone.com/2023/05/30/journalist-kit-klarenberg...)

postingawayonhn 3y ago

It might be concerning, but this isn't some great exclusive. The establishment was reported in March 2020. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/09/cross-whitehall-unit-coronavirus-disinformation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/09/cross-whitehal...

wsc981 3y ago

The Netherlands had a similar unit; I’d imagine other countries had as well. In The Netherlands it’s mostly a secret which people were part of the unit, though a couple have been discovered and perhaps there will be more to come.

chimprich 3y ago

I can't read the article because it's paywalled (and I'm unwilling to give the Barclay family any cash) but I'm very sceptical about the accuracy of the article given the Telegraph's history of printing lies and nonsense about the pandemic. See for example: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55676037 https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55676037 Does HN have any guidelines about paywalled articles? I assume a large proportion of people commenting here won't have read the article.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

It's really quite amusing to see The Telegraph trying to claim the moral high ground over government interference and disinformation. For those who don't know, The Telegraph is an extreme right media outlet which regularly publishes absolutely batshit denialist nonsense about Covid, climate change, immigration, and all the usual hits. It's a Q drop for the UK's upper class. Not coincidentally it used to employ Boris Johnson, and while PM he allegedly said that it was his real boss. https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-refers-telegraph-real-boss-dominic-cummings-claims/ https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-refers-telegraph-re... So here we are with more than 200,000 dead and more than 2 million with Long Covid. Good job, Telegraph writers. I hope you're all proud of your "journalism."

phtrivier 3y ago

Governements are in a weird place on those fronts. Either they don't try to interfere with what happens on social media, and they are criticized for not protecting people, and also have to deal with the consequences (I'd argue that misinformation about a disease will have health consequences. Maybe they're overedtimated, though ?) Alternatively, they have to try and "police" social media, which can not look like anything but policing free speech, which, especially in times of uncertainty, is bound to backfire. I wonder if people would be concerned too if the social media platforms were, in the end, ruled by juges rather than governments? It would still be a "them", but at least it would not be the same "them". Or would the social networks start to revolt against judges ? (Yes, I know, it will look a lot like separation of powers ((c) Montesquieu), and like we're going to reinvent "judges" and "the laws of free press from the late 1800s" any time soon.)

logifail 3y ago

> no one knew if it was a new black death or just a harmless virus When did "no one know"? There was already data in early May 2020 showing risk by age group https://twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1260542469256753153 https://twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1260542469256753153

wsc981 3y ago
Yep, I looked at Out World in Data [0] at the time and from the numbers it was very clear to me that it was a disease that was mainly risky for old people and people with co-morbidities. At that point it was clear to me that most people wouldn't need to be very scared. --- [0]: https://ourworldindata.org https://ourworldindata.org
- AndrewDucker 3y ago
  I was scared because I had elderly relatives. The idea that we should only worry about ourselves feels deeply immoral to me.
  - friend_and_foe 3y ago
    What about the idea that we should do every panicky thing we are told, including shun loved ones and demand people be rounded up or locked in their houses forcibly? Does that feel deeply immoral to you?
friend_and_foe 3y ago
The people that just went along with it didn't know. They stuck their fingers in their ears and called the rest of us bad people. At least we know who they are now.

donohoe 3y ago

This is from The Telegraph so you’ll find many truthful things that are twisted or presented in a way to push their narrative. See the Twitter Files coverage for another example etc.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]