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I wonder if this is the reason for philosophical/religious shifts in history. Eg axial age ideas of loving your neighbour/all being one reduced conflict which a

I wonder if this is the reason for philosophical/religious shifts in history. Eg axial age ideas of loving your neighbour/all being one reduced conflict which allowed the social cohesion needed for large complex societies to be stable enough to survive. I think we will need a similar shift in the modern age. Some religious/philosophical movement with a morality which makes waste and pollution sinful/shameful for environmental protection. I also think a ‘liturgical’ epistemological system is needed to reframe ‘truth’ and the value in reason. In this way absurd situations like ignoring externalities could be considered sinful rather than the status quo where most people do not care that these things don’t make sense. This is kind of a reaction to hyper-individualism and cynicism, which I think is the reason for most modern problems. When people do not see themselves as part of a whole, they become their own god and stop caring about the commons. Apathy becomes the default. TLDR: we need a cultural shift where people have greater respect for the environmental/intellectual commons

worrycue 3y ago
> axial age ideas of loving your neighbour/all being one Sounds like the 90s. The world coming together in a return to “nature” was the hip thing back then - from what I heard and experienced as a teen. It can be seen in media of the era like Return To Innocence by Enigma. It was mostly superficial though - there was no real deep engagement with other cultures; else they would have seen the incompatibilities and experience the “clashes” we see today. > than the status quo where most people do not care that these things don’t make sense. I don’t think people are “OK” with things not making sense. I think most people feel the world makes sense to them. However each person’s internal model of the world is probably very different from each other’s. We no longer share a “common reality” as much as in the past.
moab9 3y ago
Ive been thinking along these lines as well. How do we get there?
- brutusborn 3y ago
  I like John Vervaeke's framework for this. He prescribes an 'ecology of practices' that help us develop 'spiritually'/psychologically. The missing ingredient is a moral system and an overall structure. Many small groups are currently creating 'modern' religions, so it is up to those of us who are interested to participate, learn and help create the systems we want to see. I think we also need a lot more study of religion and spiritual ideas to identify useful methods to teach philosophical/moral/psychological systems through scripture/rituals etc. There are many low-hanging fruit. Meditation is one such concept that has only recently become scientifically accepted in the west. Once it was well-researched it moved from 'alternative' to 'mainstream.' Most modern people are very skeptical of unstudied practices. In the same way we can re-frame behaviors such as 'prayer' and 'rituals' so they are not dismissed by a skeptical audience.

worrycue 3y ago

> axial age ideas of loving your neighbour/all being one Sounds like the 90s. The world coming together in a return to “nature” was the hip thing back then - from what I heard and experienced as a teen. It can be seen in media of the era like Return To Innocence by Enigma. It was mostly superficial though - there was no real deep engagement with other cultures; else they would have seen the incompatibilities and experience the “clashes” we see today. > than the status quo where most people do not care that these things don’t make sense. I don’t think people are “OK” with things not making sense. I think most people feel the world makes sense to them. However each person’s internal model of the world is probably very different from each other’s. We no longer share a “common reality” as much as in the past.

moab9 3y ago

Ive been thinking along these lines as well. How do we get there?

brutusborn 3y ago
I like John Vervaeke's framework for this. He prescribes an 'ecology of practices' that help us develop 'spiritually'/psychologically. The missing ingredient is a moral system and an overall structure. Many small groups are currently creating 'modern' religions, so it is up to those of us who are interested to participate, learn and help create the systems we want to see. I think we also need a lot more study of religion and spiritual ideas to identify useful methods to teach philosophical/moral/psychological systems through scripture/rituals etc. There are many low-hanging fruit. Meditation is one such concept that has only recently become scientifically accepted in the west. Once it was well-researched it moved from 'alternative' to 'mainstream.' Most modern people are very skeptical of unstudied practices. In the same way we can re-frame behaviors such as 'prayer' and 'rituals' so they are not dismissed by a skeptical audience.