4 ms·

I tend to believe it was a lab leak, but the bioweapon angle never made sense to me. It made more sense as a model to study HIV since I think it uses the furin

by Natsu 3y ago

I tend to believe it was a lab leak, but the bioweapon angle never made sense to me. It made more sense as a model to study HIV since I think it uses the furin cleavage site from there. Bioweapons are just too non-selective to be useful as far as I can see, and even if you do have a cure in your back pocket, they can easily mutate or you may have issues distributing cures to your own people. Lest we forget, some covid vaccines were developed in an incredibly short time, it was testing, production & distribution that took us a year to get people vaccinated. That said, I have wondered if it's theoretically possible for a bioweapon to target people by lifestyle. Given some of the rhetoric coming out of Russia, they could, say, make something to target the HIV-positive segments of society. I can only hope such things are actually completely impractical.

kornhole 3y ago
This one may have been a leak of unfinished product rather than a release. The vaccine was already in development at that time. A lot of people made a ton of money.
- oneshtein 3y ago
  Most likely, the SARS-CoV-2 virus spread from the "Vector" laboratory in Novosibirsk, where research was being conducted on the "Sputnik V" vaccine. Evidence: * The name "Sputnik V" (Fifth Follower) suggests that the vaccine was developed following something, IMHO it was a biological weapon, and that it was the fifth attempt to create a vaccine. It is highly unlikely that Russia could have created and tested five vaccines within a month. * After an explosion[2] occurred in the biosafety level 4 laboratory "Vector" on September 16, 2019, rapid response soldiers entered the facility and conducted floor-by-floor inspections for signs of fire. They forcibly entered the laboratory without proper protection and also stole equipment from the premises. One such incident was captured on video [0][1] (note the soldier pouring water from a bucket behind the laboratory director during an interview). * Shortly thereafter, an epidemic of an unknown respiratory virus, causing severe complications, broke out in Siberia, leading to overwhelmed hospitals. SARS-CoV-2 has a high fatality rate when combined with swine flu (IFR 5.4%), but without it, the mortality rate is relatively low, and the symptoms are mild, making it difficult to detect. * Russia has started deleting videos related to the laboratory explosion at the "Vector" facility and the subsequent epidemic. This suggests that they consider these videos as evidence that could harm Russia. * It is highly likely that infected soldiers carried the virus into China when the World Military Games began in Wuhan in October 2019[3]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w7SAeNcXA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w7SAeNcXA8 [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20200407175030/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w7SAeNcXA8 https://web.archive.org/web/20200407175030/https://www.youtu... [2]: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/17/health/russia-lab-explosion-smallpox-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/17/health/russia-lab-explosi... [3]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7813667/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7813667/
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    That's interesting but can you link the Russian soldiers to the bioweapons research lab in Wuhan where the first known spread there occurred? (The so called wet market red herring) It seems highly implausible that Russian solders landed infected in Wuhan without spreading it everywhere around the airport and personnel. We were told the first known spread occurred near the wet market where the bioresearch lab is located.
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    Citation 0 is banned in the US, lol
somenameforme 3y ago
In general I'd agree. But I think there's also an interesting angle to consider. You are only really considering bioweapons as a tool for mass killing. But in modern society, lengthy disabling could arguably be even more effective and the creator might even think themselves more 'ethical' or merciful. This would not only completely cripple a target's economy, but also similarly cripple their armed forces. It would also spread panic and damage morale. All of that from a relatively negligible mortality rate, which also minimizes the worst case scenario of it coming back home. The one reason I think this improbable is because it would make no sense for the US to fund the research relatively transparently through a third party and carry out the research in China of all places. We have a million off the books labs and other areas where such could be done, and also without any transparency in funding or operation. It just looks like a typical case of human hubris. 'We'll never leak this if we take the proper measures' even though there's an absurdly high rate of lab leaks, from labs all over the world - including at the highest biosecurity levels. [1] Though impossible to measure, it really seems as though the net change in global biosecurity from gain of function and similar research is extremely negative. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity...

by Natsu 3y ago

kornhole 3y ago

This one may have been a leak of unfinished product rather than a release. The vaccine was already in development at that time. A lot of people made a ton of money.

oneshtein 3y ago
Most likely, the SARS-CoV-2 virus spread from the "Vector" laboratory in Novosibirsk, where research was being conducted on the "Sputnik V" vaccine. Evidence: * The name "Sputnik V" (Fifth Follower) suggests that the vaccine was developed following something, IMHO it was a biological weapon, and that it was the fifth attempt to create a vaccine. It is highly unlikely that Russia could have created and tested five vaccines within a month. * After an explosion[2] occurred in the biosafety level 4 laboratory "Vector" on September 16, 2019, rapid response soldiers entered the facility and conducted floor-by-floor inspections for signs of fire. They forcibly entered the laboratory without proper protection and also stole equipment from the premises. One such incident was captured on video [0][1] (note the soldier pouring water from a bucket behind the laboratory director during an interview). * Shortly thereafter, an epidemic of an unknown respiratory virus, causing severe complications, broke out in Siberia, leading to overwhelmed hospitals. SARS-CoV-2 has a high fatality rate when combined with swine flu (IFR 5.4%), but without it, the mortality rate is relatively low, and the symptoms are mild, making it difficult to detect. * Russia has started deleting videos related to the laboratory explosion at the "Vector" facility and the subsequent epidemic. This suggests that they consider these videos as evidence that could harm Russia. * It is highly likely that infected soldiers carried the virus into China when the World Military Games began in Wuhan in October 2019[3]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w7SAeNcXA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w7SAeNcXA8 [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20200407175030/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w7SAeNcXA8 https://web.archive.org/web/20200407175030/https://www.youtu... [2]: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/17/health/russia-lab-explosion-smallpox-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/17/health/russia-lab-explosi... [3]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7813667/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7813667/
- orangepurple 3y ago
  That's interesting but can you link the Russian soldiers to the bioweapons research lab in Wuhan where the first known spread there occurred? (The so called wet market red herring) It seems highly implausible that Russian solders landed infected in Wuhan without spreading it everywhere around the airport and personnel. We were told the first known spread occurred near the wet market where the bioresearch lab is located.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  Citation 0 is banned in the US, lol

somenameforme 3y ago

In general I'd agree. But I think there's also an interesting angle to consider. You are only really considering bioweapons as a tool for mass killing. But in modern society, lengthy disabling could arguably be even more effective and the creator might even think themselves more 'ethical' or merciful. This would not only completely cripple a target's economy, but also similarly cripple their armed forces. It would also spread panic and damage morale. All of that from a relatively negligible mortality rate, which also minimizes the worst case scenario of it coming back home. The one reason I think this improbable is because it would make no sense for the US to fund the research relatively transparently through a third party and carry out the research in China of all places. We have a million off the books labs and other areas where such could be done, and also without any transparency in funding or operation. It just looks like a typical case of human hubris. 'We'll never leak this if we take the proper measures' even though there's an absurdly high rate of lab leaks, from labs all over the world - including at the highest biosecurity levels. [1] Though impossible to measure, it really seems as though the net change in global biosecurity from gain of function and similar research is extremely negative. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity...