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I don't know if you meant it this way but you sound so classist with this garbage. Afraid of the non-techies coming in and being 'vile' and trashing things? You

I don't know if you meant it this way but you sound so classist with this garbage. Afraid of the non-techies coming in and being 'vile' and trashing things? You only want to share space with wealthy, upper class people, as if they're the only ones who know how to respect public space? Are Uber and Lyft not also GA? Are their cars also trashed? Seems strange that you picked on public transit as if the "unwashed masses" can't also order an Uber. The public transit in SF is definitely not vile or trashed. Sometimes there's a bit of litter on the ground. Not grimy seats. I've never seen it the way you describe it and I ride several times a week.

moomoo11 3y ago
> I don't know if you meant it this way but you sound so classist with this garbage. Afraid of the non-techies coming in and being 'vile' and trashing things? You only want to share space with wealthy, upper class people, as if they're the only ones who know how to respect public space? I grew up in a 3rd world country poorer than the poorest person you can find here. Most of my life I was poor until I started making easy money in tech once I got some experience, so everything I know from my US experience has been either inner city public transit or walking. I do know that the more money I got, the cleaner and more comfortable my environment became. I don't blame you for making some ridiculous statement like that, high compensation tends to do that to people especially people who have never faced actual adversity or difficulties so they have to pretend things are OK and rosy out of guilt. So let's be clear. If you live west of the 101, you're in a good area. Things are definitely fine in Sunset, Richmond, Portola, etc. I spend a lot of time in Mission, Soma, Bayview for work and social activities. It is not clean and nice in these areas. Graffiti, trash, people passed out in the street, etc. Common sights there. If you're in tech in SF and clearing 300-400k plus, you're not going to deal with this. If you're in these not-so-nice areas you're going to be in a nice apartment with modern security systems paying 3-4k a month or more. You probably have a nice view of the SF skyline or water, and spend time in parks wearing at worst a store brand like Patagonia while snapping pictures of your $4000 dog. You probably use Uber and Lyft, which let's be honest, are mostly used by upper middle class persons and up. > Are Uber and Lyft not also GA? Are their cars also trashed? Seems strange that you picked on public transit as if the "unwashed masses" can't also order an Uber. Uber and lyft have a person driving the car. There are obviously instances of people ruining these cars, but in Cruise and Waymo there isn't a driver. It cost me 40 bucks to go from Soma to Sunset one time. These services are for people with disposable income. There are people who can barely afford public transit. They aren't using Uber of Lyft. Be real dude lol. Have you ever taken public transit outside of Pacific Heights or out of necessity? Anyway, the sad reality is that people destroy property for no reason, and most of the occurrences I've personally experienced of this have been in areas where people are not present and/or entry fee is cheap/free. The desks in my American schooling and university would always be vandalized and ruined.. why etch shit onto the desks it makes it hard to write. People rip out keys from the public library computers. I take the bus sometimes. Why are the seats ripped intentionally and shit scribbled into the window and the hand rails?
fastball 3y ago
I think the point is more about what people do when others aren't watching. Uber and Lyft have drivers. Public transit has other passengers, staff, and is generally constructed in a way to be more resistant to malfeasance (and amenable to cleaning) than your average car. Self-driving cars will not have that, so you need to counter it somehow. Cameras and fines are probably sufficient, but OP's point that probably charging people more upfront will reduce this is probably valid, as the type of person who is willing to pay more is also going to be easier to collect fines from.
slfnflctd 3y ago
As a former Uber/Lyft driver, I had to pull over and at least shake out whichever floor mats people's shoes were on after nearly every single ride. Some kind of visible debris usually ends up on the floor immediately when a person enters the vehicle. Often there was worse stuff to clean up. It was a rare exception that someone didn't leave any trace at all. I've seen some of the cars of drivers who clearly don't clean as often, and they can get pretty gross looking (at least in daylight) pretty quickly. I think these self driving taxis are going to need really good internal cameras, a vast network of human cleaners large enough that one is always reasonably nearby, higher pricing and a strong fine/fee system to avoid looking nasty for the majority of riders. With maybe a little less cleaning needed at night.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Given the propensity for night time riders to be tipsy, if not outright drunk, I'd think they'd need more cleaning, not less at night. Or is it due to the sheer number of people? I've yet to try driving for Uber tho so I could have the wrong impression.

moomoo11 3y ago

> I don't know if you meant it this way but you sound so classist with this garbage. Afraid of the non-techies coming in and being 'vile' and trashing things? You only want to share space with wealthy, upper class people, as if they're the only ones who know how to respect public space? I grew up in a 3rd world country poorer than the poorest person you can find here. Most of my life I was poor until I started making easy money in tech once I got some experience, so everything I know from my US experience has been either inner city public transit or walking. I do know that the more money I got, the cleaner and more comfortable my environment became. I don't blame you for making some ridiculous statement like that, high compensation tends to do that to people especially people who have never faced actual adversity or difficulties so they have to pretend things are OK and rosy out of guilt. So let's be clear. If you live west of the 101, you're in a good area. Things are definitely fine in Sunset, Richmond, Portola, etc. I spend a lot of time in Mission, Soma, Bayview for work and social activities. It is not clean and nice in these areas. Graffiti, trash, people passed out in the street, etc. Common sights there. If you're in tech in SF and clearing 300-400k plus, you're not going to deal with this. If you're in these not-so-nice areas you're going to be in a nice apartment with modern security systems paying 3-4k a month or more. You probably have a nice view of the SF skyline or water, and spend time in parks wearing at worst a store brand like Patagonia while snapping pictures of your $4000 dog. You probably use Uber and Lyft, which let's be honest, are mostly used by upper middle class persons and up. > Are Uber and Lyft not also GA? Are their cars also trashed? Seems strange that you picked on public transit as if the "unwashed masses" can't also order an Uber. Uber and lyft have a person driving the car. There are obviously instances of people ruining these cars, but in Cruise and Waymo there isn't a driver. It cost me 40 bucks to go from Soma to Sunset one time. These services are for people with disposable income. There are people who can barely afford public transit. They aren't using Uber of Lyft. Be real dude lol. Have you ever taken public transit outside of Pacific Heights or out of necessity? Anyway, the sad reality is that people destroy property for no reason, and most of the occurrences I've personally experienced of this have been in areas where people are not present and/or entry fee is cheap/free. The desks in my American schooling and university would always be vandalized and ruined.. why etch shit onto the desks it makes it hard to write. People rip out keys from the public library computers. I take the bus sometimes. Why are the seats ripped intentionally and shit scribbled into the window and the hand rails?

fastball 3y ago

I think the point is more about what people do when others aren't watching. Uber and Lyft have drivers. Public transit has other passengers, staff, and is generally constructed in a way to be more resistant to malfeasance (and amenable to cleaning) than your average car. Self-driving cars will not have that, so you need to counter it somehow. Cameras and fines are probably sufficient, but OP's point that probably charging people more upfront will reduce this is probably valid, as the type of person who is willing to pay more is also going to be easier to collect fines from.

slfnflctd 3y ago

As a former Uber/Lyft driver, I had to pull over and at least shake out whichever floor mats people's shoes were on after nearly every single ride. Some kind of visible debris usually ends up on the floor immediately when a person enters the vehicle. Often there was worse stuff to clean up. It was a rare exception that someone didn't leave any trace at all. I've seen some of the cars of drivers who clearly don't clean as often, and they can get pretty gross looking (at least in daylight) pretty quickly. I think these self driving taxis are going to need really good internal cameras, a vast network of human cleaners large enough that one is always reasonably nearby, higher pricing and a strong fine/fee system to avoid looking nasty for the majority of riders. With maybe a little less cleaning needed at night.

fragmede 3y ago
Given the propensity for night time riders to be tipsy, if not outright drunk, I'd think they'd need more cleaning, not less at night. Or is it due to the sheer number of people? I've yet to try driving for Uber tho so I could have the wrong impression.