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Getting rich seemed so much more worth the effort when the upper class lifestyle was lavish and decadent. Now that we have this self righteous, abstemious class

Getting rich seemed so much more worth the effort when the upper class lifestyle was lavish and decadent. Now that we have this self righteous, abstemious class of tech overlords it really cured me of envy. Zuckerberg spends his free time trying to outrun his demons with insane workouts posted on social media, but I can be broke and pretty much do that.

gnicholas 3y ago
Yep, the NYT covered Zuckerberg's workouts this weekend as well [1] [2]. Luxury fitness is all the rage! 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/02/style/mark-zuckerberg-workout.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/02/style/mark-zuckerberg-wor... 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36182282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36182282
lotsofpulp 3y ago
That is because lavish-ness and decadence is cheap. Being disciplined is a step above, and spending time working on yourself rather than working for someone else is even more upper class. Also, there is still expensive real estate (more than Austin for sure), private jets, boats, servants, etc if you want to strive for “lavishness and decadence”.
- rgbgraph 3y ago
  It helps that the “upper class” is mostly faux, and driven by fashion more than anything innate. Zuckerberg is not upper class in the classical sense. He doesn’t have the resources or molding to truly be able to fuck off, live in the woods in a centuries-old mansion, rolling in debauchery and in complete disassociation from humanity. I.e. if you know about them, they’re not upper class, but very high upper middle class (they still “work” and participate in vulgar activities like business, rather than utterly “worthless” activities that are driven by innate desire, not glorified peer pressure). Mitt Romney is upper middle class. The Bushes are upper middle class. The Sacklers, the Clintons, the Kochs, Buffett, Gates, the Siemens, the Onassis’, the Waltons — all relatively new players, and haven’t yet been aged by centuries of absolute apathy and detachment. Ellison is definitely getting there. I think the biggest difference between him and the rest are upbringing. Ellison was not raised upper middle class, and had little regard for his family and circle. He did not have countless other upper middle class people around him in his formative years to mold his soul into conforming with upper middle class sensibilities (make money, gain influence, be interesting, important, play the image game, etc.). And now he’s fucked off to Lanai. The only thing that man values is himself and his capricious desires — that is what the upper class is. There is no internal need within him to conform to external pressures. The man is a cunt. What about the rest of the list? They grew up in relative affluence, and the upper middle class sensibilities have been imprinted onto them. To use a pop-culture example, none of them are Logan Roys. They care how people view them — especially their intimates. They might feign thoughtless excellence, but deep down they’re driven by the external forces that molded them. If there’s any amusing note it’s that the true upper class has more in common with the lower class than it does with the middle. The middle lives on lies and self-deceptions, while the upper and lower only care about themselves and their authentic desires. For example, compare Roedean to Philips Exeter. The people are utterly different — and the wealth and money is but a surface measure.
  - voisin 3y ago
    Isn’t your distinction just a choice though? You’re saying, if I am reading correctly, that the upper class is restricted to those who don’t work / care for external validation and instead choose to live a life of leisure.
    - cykros 3y ago
      I'd say there's nuance to be had here. They don't just choose leisure, they, through generational practice and upbringing, can do so without completely becoming undone in the process. See: what happens to most people who win the lottery, not having been first acclimated to that sort of wealth and leisure. Look at the sorts of things the Victorian aristocracy indulged in. It's not that they couldn't instead have been diving face first into mountains of cocaine and very top shelf booze. They just also had the ability to pace themselves and find forms of leisure that weren't debaucherous, but nor were they work. New money typically goes one way or the other -- it's that middle path that the old upper class manages to find a way to travel.
      - voisin 3y ago
        I appreciate your take on all this. It seems well reasoned from direct experience, though I may be wrong. Thanks for sharing.
  - porknubbins 3y ago
    I basically agree, with defining upper class as able to live on interest on inherited income and not having to work. The super rich tech founders don’t neatly fit into this class system because they have sometimes even more money than the old rich, but worked and still work and don’t have the upper class cultural attitudes.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
I think the one big perk I would like from being very rich is being able to fly by private jet. Being able to drive up the aircraft right before takeoff without having to worry about tickets and security screenings and delays and gate changes would make travel so much nicer.
- dylan604 3y ago
  Careful, or you'll get a social media account that documents your plane's location, or have people without private planes shame you about your contribution to global warming. But if you have that kind of money, you can just pay someone to then create some PR campaign that shows you doing "good" for other causes to make people not care about the other things
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    > But if you have that kind of money Or if you have that kind of money, you could simply not care about what other people think.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      Or, you can have that much money, buy the platform the person tracking your plane uses, then go after that account
- shostack 3y ago
  Honestly I'd just want to fly the jet myself. After flying a few business jets on MSFS it's really a blast.
- snapplebobapple 3y ago
  So what you really want is for the TSA to do its actual job instead of maximizing security theater.... The only real reason you can't arrive at the airport and be in the air a half hour later is because the things that aren't that effective at security but look effective waste a lot of time.
f33d5173 3y ago
What's might he do instead? He could make lots of posts about the expensive getaways he goes on, the lavish meals he eats, the high end private school he sends his kids to. I don't doubt that he does all that stuff. But if he made a point of posting about it, people would hate him even more than they already do. The only parts of his life he advertises publicly are the ones that don't make him look like a rich asshole. Going off that, you might well think all he does is try to seem like a good person all the time. Which is largely the goal.

gnicholas 3y ago

Yep, the NYT covered Zuckerberg's workouts this weekend as well [1] [2]. Luxury fitness is all the rage! 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/02/style/mark-zuckerberg-workout.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/02/style/mark-zuckerberg-wor... 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36182282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36182282

lotsofpulp 3y ago

That is because lavish-ness and decadence is cheap. Being disciplined is a step above, and spending time working on yourself rather than working for someone else is even more upper class. Also, there is still expensive real estate (more than Austin for sure), private jets, boats, servants, etc if you want to strive for “lavishness and decadence”.

rgbgraph 3y ago
It helps that the “upper class” is mostly faux, and driven by fashion more than anything innate. Zuckerberg is not upper class in the classical sense. He doesn’t have the resources or molding to truly be able to fuck off, live in the woods in a centuries-old mansion, rolling in debauchery and in complete disassociation from humanity. I.e. if you know about them, they’re not upper class, but very high upper middle class (they still “work” and participate in vulgar activities like business, rather than utterly “worthless” activities that are driven by innate desire, not glorified peer pressure). Mitt Romney is upper middle class. The Bushes are upper middle class. The Sacklers, the Clintons, the Kochs, Buffett, Gates, the Siemens, the Onassis’, the Waltons — all relatively new players, and haven’t yet been aged by centuries of absolute apathy and detachment. Ellison is definitely getting there. I think the biggest difference between him and the rest are upbringing. Ellison was not raised upper middle class, and had little regard for his family and circle. He did not have countless other upper middle class people around him in his formative years to mold his soul into conforming with upper middle class sensibilities (make money, gain influence, be interesting, important, play the image game, etc.). And now he’s fucked off to Lanai. The only thing that man values is himself and his capricious desires — that is what the upper class is. There is no internal need within him to conform to external pressures. The man is a cunt. What about the rest of the list? They grew up in relative affluence, and the upper middle class sensibilities have been imprinted onto them. To use a pop-culture example, none of them are Logan Roys. They care how people view them — especially their intimates. They might feign thoughtless excellence, but deep down they’re driven by the external forces that molded them. If there’s any amusing note it’s that the true upper class has more in common with the lower class than it does with the middle. The middle lives on lies and self-deceptions, while the upper and lower only care about themselves and their authentic desires. For example, compare Roedean to Philips Exeter. The people are utterly different — and the wealth and money is but a surface measure.
- voisin 3y ago
  Isn’t your distinction just a choice though? You’re saying, if I am reading correctly, that the upper class is restricted to those who don’t work / care for external validation and instead choose to live a life of leisure.
  - cykros 3y ago
    I'd say there's nuance to be had here. They don't just choose leisure, they, through generational practice and upbringing, can do so without completely becoming undone in the process. See: what happens to most people who win the lottery, not having been first acclimated to that sort of wealth and leisure. Look at the sorts of things the Victorian aristocracy indulged in. It's not that they couldn't instead have been diving face first into mountains of cocaine and very top shelf booze. They just also had the ability to pace themselves and find forms of leisure that weren't debaucherous, but nor were they work. New money typically goes one way or the other -- it's that middle path that the old upper class manages to find a way to travel.
    - voisin 3y ago
      I appreciate your take on all this. It seems well reasoned from direct experience, though I may be wrong. Thanks for sharing.
- porknubbins 3y ago
  I basically agree, with defining upper class as able to live on interest on inherited income and not having to work. The super rich tech founders don’t neatly fit into this class system because they have sometimes even more money than the old rich, but worked and still work and don’t have the upper class cultural attitudes.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

I think the one big perk I would like from being very rich is being able to fly by private jet. Being able to drive up the aircraft right before takeoff without having to worry about tickets and security screenings and delays and gate changes would make travel so much nicer.

dylan604 3y ago
Careful, or you'll get a social media account that documents your plane's location, or have people without private planes shame you about your contribution to global warming. But if you have that kind of money, you can just pay someone to then create some PR campaign that shows you doing "good" for other causes to make people not care about the other things
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > But if you have that kind of money Or if you have that kind of money, you could simply not care about what other people think.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Or, you can have that much money, buy the platform the person tracking your plane uses, then go after that account
shostack 3y ago
Honestly I'd just want to fly the jet myself. After flying a few business jets on MSFS it's really a blast.
snapplebobapple 3y ago
So what you really want is for the TSA to do its actual job instead of maximizing security theater.... The only real reason you can't arrive at the airport and be in the air a half hour later is because the things that aren't that effective at security but look effective waste a lot of time.

f33d5173 3y ago

What's might he do instead? He could make lots of posts about the expensive getaways he goes on, the lavish meals he eats, the high end private school he sends his kids to. I don't doubt that he does all that stuff. But if he made a point of posting about it, people would hate him even more than they already do. The only parts of his life he advertises publicly are the ones that don't make him look like a rich asshole. Going off that, you might well think all he does is try to seem like a good person all the time. Which is largely the goal.