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Interesting interview with the developer of the most popular 3rd part app about the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypwgu1BpaO0 https://www.youtube.com/

Interesting interview with the developer of the most popular 3rd part app about the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypwgu1BpaO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypwgu1BpaO0

itake 3y ago
I am confused why he is upset. He has built a big business for himself on the back of Reddit. Reddit realizes that he is extracting value from their platform, since they aren’t able to harvest ad review, discourages registers, etc. Now Reddit wants rent to compensate for the lost ads. My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. I’d like to see the hard numbers before having an opinion about who yo be upset with.
- aneryx 3y ago
  > My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content How did you come to that conclusion?
  - itake 3y ago
    The two things that add value to Reddit platform is Content and cash. His app is not providing cash in the form of direct payments or advertisements. His app removes the aggressive account creation, the official app has. What value does this create for Reddit?
- zhte415 3y ago
  ...or, has facilitated a large number of contributions to the site in terms of posts, comments, votes, views, community building and fluidity, and user stickiness. I can't see the relationship between Apollo and Reddit as singularly one sided.
  - anonred 3y ago
    Third party app users make up a tiny fraction of all Redditors, even assuming they’re more predisposed to posting or commenting.
    - BeefWellington 3y ago
      If that were true the API pricing makes even less sense.
- voisin 3y ago
  > My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. If content is created in the woods and no one is there to view it, did it create value?
- beachy 3y ago
  > My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. You don't have to create content to create value. You can also promote the platform and grow loyalty, something possible with Apollo.
  - guraf 3y ago
    That sounds a lot like the usual piracy advocate excuse "they're not losing any money through piracy, it gives them free exposure".
    - cmsj 3y ago
      Reddit encouraged third party clients for a long time, and made no effort to monetize them. The piracy analogy is completely inappropriate. Reddit could still encourage third party clients and also monetize them in a reasonable way, but they have chosen to be unreasonable and will almost certainly kill the market for those apps.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        A simple reasonable way is that you have to pay a subscription to Reddit to use a third party app. The app maker would then just have to charge enough to make a profit for their time spent creating and supporting the app.
    - antifa 3y ago
      Business owners say that to freelancers. Pirates don't say that.
- htag 3y ago
  If you watch the video you find that he has valid complaints, and he's not opposed to paying Reddit but thinks these terms are designed to sink 3rd party apps. Some highlighted points. * The API access charges about 10x the price compared to the revenue per user they would expect if the users accessed reddit via web or official app. * There was 30 days notice of the new pricing. He has many customers that pay per-year that he is going to lose money on until renewal. * The price is too high. Compared to similar platforms that charge for API they are charging way more. * An individual from the company called him out for having 'inefficient' code, which he took personally and mounted a good defense of his usage. * The API is losing feature parity with the first party website/app. * Reddit is itself building a bigger business on the backs of reddit users generating content. Many of those users use a 3rd party app. In fact, 3rd party apps were largely responsible for transitioning reddit into mobile usage. They seem to be overstepping their position in the ecosystem.
  - anonred 3y ago
    His “defense” for using the API inefficiently is that the official app makes a similar amount requests as Apollo, ignoring whether those are actually API requests or just telemetry (as mentioned in the linked video). Apollo makes 3.5x more requests than other third party apps. That’s a lot.
    - geekrax 3y ago
      Not really "a lot". When you think about providing absolutely best user experience, you gotta leave the engineering efficiencies out at the doors and live with the redundant API calls. The over optimization often comes with sacrificing the UX.
      - anonred 3y ago
        It’s possible to make fewer requests without negatively impacting the user experience. For example, batching requests would result in a more responsive app.
        3y ago
- lawgimenez 3y ago
  Not to mention, dude was milking his supporters to buy him that [1] XDR [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/kf4ucn/thanks_to_you_beautiful_people_my_pro_display_xdr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/kf4ucn/thanks_to...
  - doublepg23 3y ago
    Milking? He made a great app that I use daily ( guess it will soon be _used_) and he used the money I paid him to improve his work setup. How is that _milking_?
    - lawgimenez 3y ago
      You improved his work setup but app hasn’t been improved lately with thousands of bugs reported and ignored. Just go to his Apollo GitHub, I am an ultra user and it’s been frustrating to use that app as a Reddit Mod. Please don’t give me that “he’s the only one working”.
      - lotsoweiners 3y ago
        It’s times like these I wish I had a downvote button. Oh well I guess I’m soon to be a former Reddit user in addition to former Apollo user.
    - DennisAleynikov 3y ago
      in what universe does a developer for a reddit client 'need' an XDR monitor made for color work?
      - kiririn 3y ago
        It does begin to explain why he changed the text from white on black to grey on black, with no option to customise it The app became borderline unusable on phones with low contrast ratios (non-oled)
      - cmsj 3y ago
- proamdev123 3y ago
  He is upset because they told him API pricing would be “fair and reasonable”. But when they announced pricing, it comes to ~$20 million per year for Apollo. He doesn’t make anything near that from Apollo. He isn’t opposed to paying for API access, but he feels the rates they are charging are exorbitant to the point of being designed to forcel 3rd party apps out of business, not extract value from them.
- pellucidar 3y ago
  > My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. I’ve already seen one subreddit threaten to shut down because the mod moderates it using Apollo and is unwilling to use Reddit’s UI or app.

Interesting interview with the developer of the most popular 3rd part app about the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypwgu1BpaO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypwgu1BpaO0

itake 3y ago

I am confused why he is upset. He has built a big business for himself on the back of Reddit. Reddit realizes that he is extracting value from their platform, since they aren’t able to harvest ad review, discourages registers, etc. Now Reddit wants rent to compensate for the lost ads. My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. I’d like to see the hard numbers before having an opinion about who yo be upset with.

aneryx 3y ago
> My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content How did you come to that conclusion?
- itake 3y ago
  The two things that add value to Reddit platform is Content and cash. His app is not providing cash in the form of direct payments or advertisements. His app removes the aggressive account creation, the official app has. What value does this create for Reddit?
zhte415 3y ago
...or, has facilitated a large number of contributions to the site in terms of posts, comments, votes, views, community building and fluidity, and user stickiness. I can't see the relationship between Apollo and Reddit as singularly one sided.
- anonred 3y ago
  Third party app users make up a tiny fraction of all Redditors, even assuming they’re more predisposed to posting or commenting.
  - BeefWellington 3y ago
    If that were true the API pricing makes even less sense.
voisin 3y ago
> My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. If content is created in the woods and no one is there to view it, did it create value?
beachy 3y ago
> My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. You don't have to create content to create value. You can also promote the platform and grow loyalty, something possible with Apollo.
- guraf 3y ago
  That sounds a lot like the usual piracy advocate excuse "they're not losing any money through piracy, it gives them free exposure".
  - cmsj 3y ago
    Reddit encouraged third party clients for a long time, and made no effort to monetize them. The piracy analogy is completely inappropriate. Reddit could still encourage third party clients and also monetize them in a reasonable way, but they have chosen to be unreasonable and will almost certainly kill the market for those apps.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      A simple reasonable way is that you have to pay a subscription to Reddit to use a third party app. The app maker would then just have to charge enough to make a profit for their time spent creating and supporting the app.
  - antifa 3y ago
    Business owners say that to freelancers. Pirates don't say that.
htag 3y ago
If you watch the video you find that he has valid complaints, and he's not opposed to paying Reddit but thinks these terms are designed to sink 3rd party apps. Some highlighted points. * The API access charges about 10x the price compared to the revenue per user they would expect if the users accessed reddit via web or official app. * There was 30 days notice of the new pricing. He has many customers that pay per-year that he is going to lose money on until renewal. * The price is too high. Compared to similar platforms that charge for API they are charging way more. * An individual from the company called him out for having 'inefficient' code, which he took personally and mounted a good defense of his usage. * The API is losing feature parity with the first party website/app. * Reddit is itself building a bigger business on the backs of reddit users generating content. Many of those users use a 3rd party app. In fact, 3rd party apps were largely responsible for transitioning reddit into mobile usage. They seem to be overstepping their position in the ecosystem.
- anonred 3y ago
  His “defense” for using the API inefficiently is that the official app makes a similar amount requests as Apollo, ignoring whether those are actually API requests or just telemetry (as mentioned in the linked video). Apollo makes 3.5x more requests than other third party apps. That’s a lot.
  - geekrax 3y ago
    Not really "a lot". When you think about providing absolutely best user experience, you gotta leave the engineering efficiencies out at the doors and live with the redundant API calls. The over optimization often comes with sacrificing the UX.
    - anonred 3y ago
      It’s possible to make fewer requests without negatively impacting the user experience. For example, batching requests would result in a more responsive app.
      - 3y ago
lawgimenez 3y ago
Not to mention, dude was milking his supporters to buy him that [1] XDR [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/kf4ucn/thanks_to_you_beautiful_people_my_pro_display_xdr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/kf4ucn/thanks_to...
- doublepg23 3y ago
  Milking? He made a great app that I use daily ( guess it will soon be _used_) and he used the money I paid him to improve his work setup. How is that _milking_?
  - lawgimenez 3y ago
    You improved his work setup but app hasn’t been improved lately with thousands of bugs reported and ignored. Just go to his Apollo GitHub, I am an ultra user and it’s been frustrating to use that app as a Reddit Mod. Please don’t give me that “he’s the only one working”.
    - lotsoweiners 3y ago
      It’s times like these I wish I had a downvote button. Oh well I guess I’m soon to be a former Reddit user in addition to former Apollo user.
  - DennisAleynikov 3y ago
    in what universe does a developer for a reddit client 'need' an XDR monitor made for color work?
    - kiririn 3y ago
      It does begin to explain why he changed the text from white on black to grey on black, with no option to customise it The app became borderline unusable on phones with low contrast ratios (non-oled)
    - cmsj 3y ago
proamdev123 3y ago
He is upset because they told him API pricing would be “fair and reasonable”. But when they announced pricing, it comes to ~$20 million per year for Apollo. He doesn’t make anything near that from Apollo. He isn’t opposed to paying for API access, but he feels the rates they are charging are exorbitant to the point of being designed to forcel 3rd party apps out of business, not extract value from them.
pellucidar 3y ago
> My guess Reddit also noticed most people using Apollo doesn’t create content, so Apollo users are just extracting value from Reddit. I’ve already seen one subreddit threaten to shut down because the mod moderates it using Apollo and is unwilling to use Reddit’s UI or app.