4 ms·

Full or no filesystem access is very, very far from proper sandboxing.

• nerdponx 3y ago
  As far as I know, Flatpak offers a fair amount of control over sandboxing. It's just that isn't particularly useful for some thing like a document processing application that you usually want to be able to use on files in various parts of your system. The alternative might be giving it access to one particular directories, and then copying files there when you want to work on them. But that's already pretty cumbersome, something only the paranoid would bother with. Realistically, I know that I do not have the skills to evaluate complicated applications and their complicated dependencies for security characteristics, so I am 100% reliant on packagers, maintainers, etc. for my security anyway. I'd rather just donate to the people publishing and maintaining the packages and hope that they are doing the job well, than fruitlessly attempt to fuss over it myself.
  • orra 3y ago
    > It's just that isn't particularly useful for some thing like a document processing application that you usually want to be able to use on files in various parts of your syste The good news is there is a solution to this. The trusted system shows a file picker, and then grants access to the sandboxes application. This is called the File Chooser Portal. https://docs.flatpak.org/en/latest/portal-api-reference.html#gdbus-org.freedesktop.portal.FileChooser https://docs.flatpak.org/en/latest/portal-api-reference.html...
    • nerdponx 3y ago
      I didn't realize this existed, it seems a lot like what Apple is doing for the photo gallery in recent iOS versions. That's a nice extra safety feature. I suppose additional security features inspired by mobile systems couldn't hurt either. Like a pop-up whenever something accesses the clipboard.
      • orra 3y ago
        Yup, mobile is ahead of desktop here, in terms of making it reasonably safe to run moderately questionable applications. I just hope flatpak sandboxing works well...
  • bandrami 3y ago
    That's roughly what our workflow does (DFARS requires it or something like it for CUI) and this story annoys me because the entire selling point of RHEL (which is what we use) is that you aren't having to audit a bunch of random upstreams because they do it for you. It's why their going all-in on flatpak was such a surprise to a lot of us.
    • nerdponx 3y ago
      That's fair. Maybe some large organization will be willing to sponsor their maintenance of RPMs, or of the Flatpaks directly. After spending hours trying to package even simple programs in RPM and DEB, I am very sympathetic to the idea that one cross-OS packaging format is enough. Why shouldn't there be "enterprise audited Flatpak" like anything else?
      • bandrami 3y ago
        That's actually a really cool idea and I'll make sure to credit nerdponx for it if I succeed.
• bandrami 3y ago
  Sandboxing is also an orthogonal question from packaging. OpenBSD sandboxes applications using pledge; it doesn't require maintaining multiple parallel runtimes to do it.
  • gjadi 3y ago
    Yes but pledge works at the source level. It's the job of the developer to set the correct pledge calls.