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The evangelical line --- since we're post new Testament --- is we're in end times. Satan will take over eventually, and at any time final judgement will occur

by scrubs 3y ago

The evangelical line --- since we're post new Testament --- is we're in end times. Satan will take over eventually, and at any time final judgement will occur which is why salvation is a pressing issue. It's a apocalyptic stance that for some (certainly not all) creates a nasty dis-association with the here and now. After all if heaven/hell was always the only point, then this life is like a Las Vegas weekend. It's not our place, not our home and in 72hrs we're out anyway. I wrote before evangelical theology is sufficiently ill-defined such that it can incorporate major changes in understanding which is a kind of consistency problem. Nobody with a dose of common sense about the prevailing attitudes in monotheistic religions would say detection of non-earth based life changes nothing. The old testament creation story is all earth centered, and all earth-man centered all the time. You might enjoy Ken Wilbur's "Quantum Questions" in this context. He writes a mini biography on all the major 20th century scientists many of whom held a spiritual core although (as far as I can remember) not an American evangelical line. I think the book makes a good point. No scientist uses science as means to prove or disprove God/theology. And no scientists uses the Bible to disprove or prove rational facts about the world we live in. Either way it's a corruption of the other. Nonetheless the evangelical line and its literal take on the new Testament is what it is. There is no God. We're not living in end-times. Satan doesn't exist. Final judgement isn't pending. Salvation is an unforced problem. And no proof of aliens or even bacterial life off-earth is demonstrated with rational evidence. This brings us to a world more like Camus'. Existence is absurd. Meaning is living a full live despite the absurdness of it akin to Sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill to have to retrieve it when it rolls down and push it up again. Our job is to make something of that while we can.

Amezarak 3y ago
> Nobody with a dose of common sense about the prevailing attitudes in monotheistic religions would say detection of non-earth based life changes nothing. I like Camus, and most would categorize my philosophical beliefs as some breed of Nietzschean, but I think it's very important to develop a deep an understanding of other attitudes as possible, and I don't think this is generally true. For example, CS Lewis is widely loved by evangelicals [1] and he literally wrote fiction laying out how he thought aliens would fit within that cosmology[2]. There is really nothing in particular that would change theologically. Of course it may change things culturally. More interesting to me, and what I was referencing, is that many evangelicals (and others, famously the orthodox Seraphim Rose) interpret UFO activity as spiritual phenomena, and attribute it to demons. Some of these works are certainly thought-provoking, if you can suspend your preconceptions going into them. [3] Certainly if I am to believe in the reality of the underlying incidents and were forced at gunpoint to attribute it to intelligent entities, I actually find the idea of "demons messing with people because they hate us" more persuasive than the absurd utopian idea that aliens are using their magic tech to fly across the galaxy so they can "uplift" us or any of the other nonsensical motivations usually given. [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/one-man-thinking-cs-lewis_b_835747 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/one-man-thinking-cs-lewis_b_8... [2] His space trilogy. [3] Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future in particular has an interesting chapter or two about this. What I found particularly intriguing is the idea that the actual incidents are not actually new, with descriptions of historical parallels, and we're simply interpreting ancient phenomena in a different way due to cultural changes, and the brief analysis of the psychological impact of UFOs, which is almost uniformly very negative to witnesses.
- scrubs 3y ago
  I got off track and delved in too far in personal belief, and rehash of science and religion. I think this is the wrong place and time for that. I'll try to come back in middle with a few things I also heartily respect: - certain persons are able to wholly soak their life in Christianity and do right with it to the benefit of all. I think of my sister. I think of the Secretary of State from the mid-west (name and state forgotten by me) who was hit on to do illegal stuff around the USJan6 debacle. This guy calmly explained his position to the Jan6 commission centered in his belief and his duty to God with its moral underpinnings. And he did as an authentic individual. No stock phrases like "As a Christian man" thereby putting emphasis on identity or grandstanding. He earned my respect. He knew the right thing. He reasoned the right thing. Then he did the right thing. Gotta admire that. - religion was our first kind of shared culture. It provides some guidance on moral and ethical behavior. My parents (really my mother) raised me broadly under this background and it did right by me. Duty, knowing and doing the right thing even if it's temporarily uncomfortable, and having humility are important. Now, I'm leaving out square light years of details and nuance in so saying, but I acknowledge a good thing is good. On aliens: my goto hunch is sensor spoofing either by creating a signal that's sensed and misinterpreted as bonafide, or a hack in the sensor systems itself. Demons? ET? These are extra ordinary phenomena that are gonna need extra ordinary evidence. In conclusion I'm heartened we both ended up with one foot in Camus. The French aren't half-bad at philosophy! Cheers.

by scrubs 3y ago

Amezarak 3y ago

> Nobody with a dose of common sense about the prevailing attitudes in monotheistic religions would say detection of non-earth based life changes nothing. I like Camus, and most would categorize my philosophical beliefs as some breed of Nietzschean, but I think it's very important to develop a deep an understanding of other attitudes as possible, and I don't think this is generally true. For example, CS Lewis is widely loved by evangelicals [1] and he literally wrote fiction laying out how he thought aliens would fit within that cosmology[2]. There is really nothing in particular that would change theologically. Of course it may change things culturally. More interesting to me, and what I was referencing, is that many evangelicals (and others, famously the orthodox Seraphim Rose) interpret UFO activity as spiritual phenomena, and attribute it to demons. Some of these works are certainly thought-provoking, if you can suspend your preconceptions going into them. [3] Certainly if I am to believe in the reality of the underlying incidents and were forced at gunpoint to attribute it to intelligent entities, I actually find the idea of "demons messing with people because they hate us" more persuasive than the absurd utopian idea that aliens are using their magic tech to fly across the galaxy so they can "uplift" us or any of the other nonsensical motivations usually given. [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/one-man-thinking-cs-lewis_b_835747 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/one-man-thinking-cs-lewis_b_8... [2] His space trilogy. [3] Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future in particular has an interesting chapter or two about this. What I found particularly intriguing is the idea that the actual incidents are not actually new, with descriptions of historical parallels, and we're simply interpreting ancient phenomena in a different way due to cultural changes, and the brief analysis of the psychological impact of UFOs, which is almost uniformly very negative to witnesses.

scrubs 3y ago
I got off track and delved in too far in personal belief, and rehash of science and religion. I think this is the wrong place and time for that. I'll try to come back in middle with a few things I also heartily respect: - certain persons are able to wholly soak their life in Christianity and do right with it to the benefit of all. I think of my sister. I think of the Secretary of State from the mid-west (name and state forgotten by me) who was hit on to do illegal stuff around the USJan6 debacle. This guy calmly explained his position to the Jan6 commission centered in his belief and his duty to God with its moral underpinnings. And he did as an authentic individual. No stock phrases like "As a Christian man" thereby putting emphasis on identity or grandstanding. He earned my respect. He knew the right thing. He reasoned the right thing. Then he did the right thing. Gotta admire that. - religion was our first kind of shared culture. It provides some guidance on moral and ethical behavior. My parents (really my mother) raised me broadly under this background and it did right by me. Duty, knowing and doing the right thing even if it's temporarily uncomfortable, and having humility are important. Now, I'm leaving out square light years of details and nuance in so saying, but I acknowledge a good thing is good. On aliens: my goto hunch is sensor spoofing either by creating a signal that's sensed and misinterpreted as bonafide, or a hack in the sensor systems itself. Demons? ET? These are extra ordinary phenomena that are gonna need extra ordinary evidence. In conclusion I'm heartened we both ended up with one foot in Camus. The French aren't half-bad at philosophy! Cheers.