6 ms·

But the very act of striking is hurting the business, that's the whole point. It's the only leverage workers have. Ofcourse actual vandalism is different, and t

by mola 3y ago

But the very act of striking is hurting the business, that's the whole point. It's the only leverage workers have. Ofcourse actual vandalism is different, and there are laws against it. But allowing for suing damages caused by strikes is just a way to crush workers rights and return most of the power imbalance to favour the owners.

gruez 3y ago
Isn't this a slippery slope argument? The claim by the company isn't that they lost money due to the strike and therefore the union has to pay, it's due to the workers deliberately going on strike at a specific time to cause damage and therefore the union has to pay.
- irq-1 3y ago
  Did management know the date or time? Management is responsible for scheduling the cement trucks. Separate from this issue, a lawsuit is a huge burden to place on workers. For striking to remain any kind of negotiation we can't have workers going unpaid and then buried in legal expenses. Everyone will just quit instead of striking, and workers will have lost what little power they have now.
  - gruez 3y ago
    > Did management know the date or time? Management is responsible for scheduling the cement trucks. According to a sibling comment[1], no. >Separate from this issue, a lawsuit is a huge burden to place on workers. For striking to remain any kind of negotiation we can't have workers going unpaid and then buried in legal expenses. Giving the workers a pass on illegal behavior just because they're on a strike doesn't sound too good either. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36179122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36179122
- aaomidi 3y ago
  Do employees get to pick the time and date they get fired? No? Then the company can fuck right off. The Supreme Court needs to not forget what the worker union landscape looked before NLRB. The only reason NLRB and federal union rules are relevant is because the workers have for now accepted that. That can change.
crazygringo 3y ago
Nobody's saying you're not allowed to hurt the business. But there's a big difference between trying to damage trucks by walking off mid-shift, vs. not showing up for work the next day. The same as there's a big difference between stealing things from a store vs. boycotting a store. We draw these lines for a reason. Nobody's suing workers for going on strike. They're suing them for leaving drying cement in their trucks in the middle of their shift. If workers simply finish their shift before going on strike, that's not crushing workers' right at all, nor is it creating a power imbalance that favors the owners.
- oneTbrain23 3y ago
  They are not suppose to strike. They WILLINGLY signed their employment contract to work and get paid. Now halfway thru, they feel they not getting a better deal (remember the strike is purely on not getting better deal and has nothing to do with sweatshop conditions - no one pointing gun at them). So workers really renegate on their employment contract and holding everyone hostage to renegotiate a better employment contract. What union suppose to do is make sure employment contracts are fair, no anticompete clause, salary being paid on time, insurance coverage, and workers continued education. Instead everything hinges on more pay (so can enrich union fee) because excuse of now it is not a living wage. Those workers can go learn coding and immediately getting 50% salary increase. They can go get a plumber certification and get better pay. They didnt. They being lazy and just assume doing the same thing today automatic given increments. They are the people who is ok Apple reselling and rebranding old iPhone with higher price but just the same locking others out with their propietary app store garden and lightning cable). In Chicago for example, if you are non-Union cable installer able to do the job cheaper and faster, union workers can force you to strip all those cables because simply you are non union even if unionized workers did a bad job of it. That is union. I was once pro union. After I ditched that mentality, moving from blue worker class and now in those 1-2% class through education. It really open my eyes MAJORITY of unionized workers are simply lazy. Some are hard working and do get oppressed, but even within Union they will oppress these people as it is bad for union business/growth. In coming years Asians with AI going to burn away a lot of American jobs. Unions just expedite that. I moved to Asia side to ensure my wealth and my descendants are better taken care of. America is so screwed these days.

by mola 3y ago

gruez 3y ago

Isn't this a slippery slope argument? The claim by the company isn't that they lost money due to the strike and therefore the union has to pay, it's due to the workers deliberately going on strike at a specific time to cause damage and therefore the union has to pay.

irq-1 3y ago
Did management know the date or time? Management is responsible for scheduling the cement trucks. Separate from this issue, a lawsuit is a huge burden to place on workers. For striking to remain any kind of negotiation we can't have workers going unpaid and then buried in legal expenses. Everyone will just quit instead of striking, and workers will have lost what little power they have now.
- gruez 3y ago
  > Did management know the date or time? Management is responsible for scheduling the cement trucks. According to a sibling comment[1], no. >Separate from this issue, a lawsuit is a huge burden to place on workers. For striking to remain any kind of negotiation we can't have workers going unpaid and then buried in legal expenses. Giving the workers a pass on illegal behavior just because they're on a strike doesn't sound too good either. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36179122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36179122
aaomidi 3y ago
Do employees get to pick the time and date they get fired? No? Then the company can fuck right off. The Supreme Court needs to not forget what the worker union landscape looked before NLRB. The only reason NLRB and federal union rules are relevant is because the workers have for now accepted that. That can change.

crazygringo 3y ago

Nobody's saying you're not allowed to hurt the business. But there's a big difference between trying to damage trucks by walking off mid-shift, vs. not showing up for work the next day. The same as there's a big difference between stealing things from a store vs. boycotting a store. We draw these lines for a reason. Nobody's suing workers for going on strike. They're suing them for leaving drying cement in their trucks in the middle of their shift. If workers simply finish their shift before going on strike, that's not crushing workers' right at all, nor is it creating a power imbalance that favors the owners.

oneTbrain23 3y ago
They are not suppose to strike. They WILLINGLY signed their employment contract to work and get paid. Now halfway thru, they feel they not getting a better deal (remember the strike is purely on not getting better deal and has nothing to do with sweatshop conditions - no one pointing gun at them). So workers really renegate on their employment contract and holding everyone hostage to renegotiate a better employment contract. What union suppose to do is make sure employment contracts are fair, no anticompete clause, salary being paid on time, insurance coverage, and workers continued education. Instead everything hinges on more pay (so can enrich union fee) because excuse of now it is not a living wage. Those workers can go learn coding and immediately getting 50% salary increase. They can go get a plumber certification and get better pay. They didnt. They being lazy and just assume doing the same thing today automatic given increments. They are the people who is ok Apple reselling and rebranding old iPhone with higher price but just the same locking others out with their propietary app store garden and lightning cable). In Chicago for example, if you are non-Union cable installer able to do the job cheaper and faster, union workers can force you to strip all those cables because simply you are non union even if unionized workers did a bad job of it. That is union. I was once pro union. After I ditched that mentality, moving from blue worker class and now in those 1-2% class through education. It really open my eyes MAJORITY of unionized workers are simply lazy. Some are hard working and do get oppressed, but even within Union they will oppress these people as it is bad for union business/growth. In coming years Asians with AI going to burn away a lot of American jobs. Unions just expedite that. I moved to Asia side to ensure my wealth and my descendants are better taken care of. America is so screwed these days.