5 ms·

A 50 year old physician or lawyer, if they are good, is at the absolute top of their profession and can 90% expect work another ten or twenty or more years stil

by JJMcJ 3y ago

A 50 year old physician or lawyer, if they are good, is at the absolute top of their profession and can 90% expect work another ten or twenty or more years still earning top dollar. A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life.

weatherlite 3y ago
I don't agree about lawyers actually. If you haven't made it into something close to partner level or have extremely valuable knowledge and skillset you'll be seen as a liability. There's plenty of people in their late 20s to early 40s who will be preferred over you. Same goes for most jobs actually, doctors are the outliers. For now...wait till A.I makes progress in medical circles.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  One fact I can add to your knowledge is that at my firm, the lawyers who have been practicing longest have the highest billable rate. One more is that I very, very rarely ask any 29 year old lawyers at my firm any questions, although I love them dearly. When I need someone to review my work or answer a ticklish question, I seek out 72 year olds and ask them. I'm not sure who clients prefer but when it comes to legal problems I prefer elder lawyers.
  - weatherlite 3y ago
    Yes they are partner level. How many 50 year old lawyers has your firm hired recently? Ones who haven't advanced to partner?
    - weatherlite 3y ago
      To be clear I'm not saying this never happens (hiring of mid level 50 year olds), I'm just saying it's just as rare as in tech. I don't think I'm imagining this, it's a pretty well established statistic that after 50 job participation rates begin to fall.
      - singleshot_ 3y ago
        I perceive the lateral market for 50 year-old non-partners to be robust and I believe the market for first year lawyers is vastly more challenging. I myself would vastly prefer age and experience in a lawyer to the billable hour vigor of youth. Do you participate in either or both of those markets? Let’s put it this way: I intentionally left the old tech guy market and I can tell you the old law guy market had no problem supporting me. I am not a partner and (if you believe my boss) I’m not very skilled.
        weatherlite 3y ago
        > Do you participate in either or both of those markets? My wife is a big 4 consultant (international tax). She has worked in almost all of them - E.Y, KPMG etc. Same structure everywhere - a couple of 35-45ish (sometimes 50ish) partners and a bunch of young managers and seniors who do all the work. My wife is now an old 36 manager there. So it seems like you either move up or move out in big 4. > I myself would vastly prefer age and experience in a lawyer to the billable hour vigor of youth. I have no argument with you there. I also tend to prefer older devs but it's a personal preference. Anyway we should try to move from an anecdotal discussion. "According to the SRA, only 8% working at larger law firms are aged 55 to 64, and while the current war for talent has meant law firms have focused on attracting and retaining lawyers early on in their careers, we rarely hear about efforts to recruit and retain older lawyers." https://www.law.com/international-edition/2022/09/28/silver-exodus-tackling-ageism-in-the-legal-industry/ https://www.law.com/international-edition/2022/09/28/silver-...
        singleshot_ 3y ago
        I’m going to chalk this up to micro markets, I think. I get recruited harder now than I did as computer.guy and I’m that many years older thanks to taking a break for law school. My passing familiarity with Accenture means I understand what you’re saying about the big four. One factor I wonder if you’re taking into account is that there aren’t a lot of law firms as big as the big four accounting firms. Maybe the situation you (and that law.com article ) are detailing is how it is in big law right now, where I am not?
dangwhy 3y ago
> A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life. Fuck. That made anxious. I am close to that age. Also, my middle manager friends are having much harder time finding a job than programmer types. Don't know if its just them or if its a trend.
- weatherlite 3y ago
  A.I is gonna change the job market so deeply I wouldn't worry much. It's futile to worry, we simply don't know what's coming we only know it will change everything.
  - falters 3y ago
    Quoting ('someone's on the Internet' (-) Messages I read in the last days...): "And, because the bosses don't want to raise wages? This is why AI hype is big right now. There's a lot of companies hoping to hawk a snake-oil 'solution' to lower productivity that doesn't require raising wages. Given that most government accounting is single entry and most macro (-economic-solution) does not really recognise the role of money in the economy, this is in itself quite revolutionary stuff It's pretty sickening to see how much money is allocated in developed Capitalist economies to (disturbing-kick people-) scams like AI. On June 15 a session titled 'The New World Economy — Not Global, But Interconnected' will take place as part of the business program on the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum 2023 'It is about an authoritarian communist regime that gave up communist economic policy, but not in other segments. But... It's still a communist country' > They were told they were building a castle, but instead they built a prison. The industry term is 'golden handcuffs.'" ...maybe and i hope so there is something to learn from regards...
- cosmodisk 3y ago
  No need to. If your experience is solid, there's plenty of work for consultants. Not those types, who walk in and get told to create a CRUD app, but those who can advise on tech, its implications on the business, the risks, etc.

by JJMcJ 3y ago

weatherlite 3y ago

I don't agree about lawyers actually. If you haven't made it into something close to partner level or have extremely valuable knowledge and skillset you'll be seen as a liability. There's plenty of people in their late 20s to early 40s who will be preferred over you. Same goes for most jobs actually, doctors are the outliers. For now...wait till A.I makes progress in medical circles.

singleshot_ 3y ago
One fact I can add to your knowledge is that at my firm, the lawyers who have been practicing longest have the highest billable rate. One more is that I very, very rarely ask any 29 year old lawyers at my firm any questions, although I love them dearly. When I need someone to review my work or answer a ticklish question, I seek out 72 year olds and ask them. I'm not sure who clients prefer but when it comes to legal problems I prefer elder lawyers.
- weatherlite 3y ago
  Yes they are partner level. How many 50 year old lawyers has your firm hired recently? Ones who haven't advanced to partner?
  - weatherlite 3y ago
    To be clear I'm not saying this never happens (hiring of mid level 50 year olds), I'm just saying it's just as rare as in tech. I don't think I'm imagining this, it's a pretty well established statistic that after 50 job participation rates begin to fall.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      I perceive the lateral market for 50 year-old non-partners to be robust and I believe the market for first year lawyers is vastly more challenging. I myself would vastly prefer age and experience in a lawyer to the billable hour vigor of youth. Do you participate in either or both of those markets? Let’s put it this way: I intentionally left the old tech guy market and I can tell you the old law guy market had no problem supporting me. I am not a partner and (if you believe my boss) I’m not very skilled.
      - weatherlite 3y ago
        > Do you participate in either or both of those markets? My wife is a big 4 consultant (international tax). She has worked in almost all of them - E.Y, KPMG etc. Same structure everywhere - a couple of 35-45ish (sometimes 50ish) partners and a bunch of young managers and seniors who do all the work. My wife is now an old 36 manager there. So it seems like you either move up or move out in big 4. > I myself would vastly prefer age and experience in a lawyer to the billable hour vigor of youth. I have no argument with you there. I also tend to prefer older devs but it's a personal preference. Anyway we should try to move from an anecdotal discussion. "According to the SRA, only 8% working at larger law firms are aged 55 to 64, and while the current war for talent has meant law firms have focused on attracting and retaining lawyers early on in their careers, we rarely hear about efforts to recruit and retain older lawyers." https://www.law.com/international-edition/2022/09/28/silver-exodus-tackling-ageism-in-the-legal-industry/ https://www.law.com/international-edition/2022/09/28/silver-...
        singleshot_ 3y ago
        I’m going to chalk this up to micro markets, I think. I get recruited harder now than I did as computer.guy and I’m that many years older thanks to taking a break for law school. My passing familiarity with Accenture means I understand what you’re saying about the big four. One factor I wonder if you’re taking into account is that there aren’t a lot of law firms as big as the big four accounting firms. Maybe the situation you (and that law.com article ) are detailing is how it is in big law right now, where I am not?

dangwhy 3y ago

> A 50 year old non-management programmer? Look forward to having 23 year olds asking if you know what an array is for the rest of your work life. Fuck. That made anxious. I am close to that age. Also, my middle manager friends are having much harder time finding a job than programmer types. Don't know if its just them or if its a trend.

weatherlite 3y ago
A.I is gonna change the job market so deeply I wouldn't worry much. It's futile to worry, we simply don't know what's coming we only know it will change everything.
- falters 3y ago
  Quoting ('someone's on the Internet' (-) Messages I read in the last days...): "And, because the bosses don't want to raise wages? This is why AI hype is big right now. There's a lot of companies hoping to hawk a snake-oil 'solution' to lower productivity that doesn't require raising wages. Given that most government accounting is single entry and most macro (-economic-solution) does not really recognise the role of money in the economy, this is in itself quite revolutionary stuff It's pretty sickening to see how much money is allocated in developed Capitalist economies to (disturbing-kick people-) scams like AI. On June 15 a session titled 'The New World Economy — Not Global, But Interconnected' will take place as part of the business program on the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum 2023 'It is about an authoritarian communist regime that gave up communist economic policy, but not in other segments. But... It's still a communist country' > They were told they were building a castle, but instead they built a prison. The industry term is 'golden handcuffs.'" ...maybe and i hope so there is something to learn from regards...
cosmodisk 3y ago
No need to. If your experience is solid, there's plenty of work for consultants. Not those types, who walk in and get told to create a CRUD app, but those who can advise on tech, its implications on the business, the risks, etc.