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How does that idea fit with real-world China which runs a state-capitalist economy under an authoritarian communist rule? China has done what needed to be done

How does that idea fit with real-world China which runs a state-capitalist economy under an authoritarian communist rule? China has done what needed to be done to realize what is an unprecedented economic miracle, especially considering it's a socialist country surrounded by a hostile capitalist world. They chose to be pragmatic and it worked incredibly well. While China certainly has capitalists and bilionaires, they are kept in check. China also set a 2050 target to fully transition to socialism. You are right though that authoritarianism seems to be a pre-condition both for communist and fascist regimes. Every society has a ruling class. In fascist societies it's the military together with the capital, in liberal societies it's the bourgeoisie, in socialist societies it's the working class. Authoritarian societies use force to maintain order, liberal societies use the illusion of choice. When that doesn't work, they promptly revert to force as everyone else.

flohofwoe 3y ago
> They also set a 2050 target to fully transition to socialism. Lol, that sounds strangely familiar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism > in socialist societies it's the working class Do you really believe this? All socialist countries so far ended up very quickly (or more likely: started with) being ruled by a very small elite comprised of the top of a single political party. Ah but of course I know - those weren't actually socialist societies but authoritarian regimes in diguise, but next time it will work you'll see! Jesus Christ...
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  His link to 100+ page book doesn’t even claim “full socialism”. He’s just a tank.
  - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
    The title is literally "2050 China - Becoming a Great Modern Socialist Country". Did you even read before insulting me? Since you couldn't possibly have read those 100 pages since I shared the book with you, I must conclude you simply CTRL+F for "full socialism", which is the funniest thing I've witnessed in a long time. Also I'm really curious to know what is your definition of "full socialism". Can you provide one without resorting to Wikipedia?
chrysler 3y ago
>> in socialist societies it's the working class How does it manifest itself? Did the Eastern Bloc working class have the best access to education, medicine and goods? Was there no party elite with dedicated hospitals and exclusive stores open only to them? Did the working class have any say who and how ran the countries? Could a working man even plant their version of a "Biden blows" sign in front yard without imprisonment?
golergka 3y ago
Their economic miracle was created by Henry Kissinger and globalization. Building a fascist regime was not a prerequisite for it, but is for problems that they are facing now.
jonathankoren 3y ago
How do you square the existence authoritarian party elite, which does include the billionaires, the idea that socialist societies are ruled by the working class, and that China is ostensibly socialist and going to be “fully socialist” in just 27 years? They’re going to eliminate the billionaires?
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  If you are actually interested in learning how they plan to achieve socialism by 2050, you can read the freely available "2050 China"[0]. I have a question for you, what is USA planning to achieve by 2050? Corporate feudalism? What is Europe planning to achieve by 2050? .0: https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.12657/46096/2021_Book_2050China.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.12657/4609...
  - jonathankoren 3y ago
    The fact that you believe that China is anything more than a run of the mill capitalist authoritarian regime is cute.
    - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
      > The fact that you believe that China is anything more than a run of the mill capitalist authoritarian regime is cute. Not the most elegant way to show me you're out of arguments
      - jonathankoren 3y ago
        I’m sorry I gave you the impression that I was debating you. I’m not.
  - TheGigaChad 3y ago
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flohofwoe 3y ago

> They also set a 2050 target to fully transition to socialism. Lol, that sounds strangely familiar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism > in socialist societies it's the working class Do you really believe this? All socialist countries so far ended up very quickly (or more likely: started with) being ruled by a very small elite comprised of the top of a single political party. Ah but of course I know - those weren't actually socialist societies but authoritarian regimes in diguise, but next time it will work you'll see! Jesus Christ...

jonathankoren 3y ago
His link to 100+ page book doesn’t even claim “full socialism”. He’s just a tank.
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  The title is literally "2050 China - Becoming a Great Modern Socialist Country". Did you even read before insulting me? Since you couldn't possibly have read those 100 pages since I shared the book with you, I must conclude you simply CTRL+F for "full socialism", which is the funniest thing I've witnessed in a long time. Also I'm really curious to know what is your definition of "full socialism". Can you provide one without resorting to Wikipedia?

chrysler 3y ago

>> in socialist societies it's the working class How does it manifest itself? Did the Eastern Bloc working class have the best access to education, medicine and goods? Was there no party elite with dedicated hospitals and exclusive stores open only to them? Did the working class have any say who and how ran the countries? Could a working man even plant their version of a "Biden blows" sign in front yard without imprisonment?

golergka 3y ago

Their economic miracle was created by Henry Kissinger and globalization. Building a fascist regime was not a prerequisite for it, but is for problems that they are facing now.

jonathankoren 3y ago

How do you square the existence authoritarian party elite, which does include the billionaires, the idea that socialist societies are ruled by the working class, and that China is ostensibly socialist and going to be “fully socialist” in just 27 years? They’re going to eliminate the billionaires?

pastacacioepepe 3y ago
If you are actually interested in learning how they plan to achieve socialism by 2050, you can read the freely available "2050 China"[0]. I have a question for you, what is USA planning to achieve by 2050? Corporate feudalism? What is Europe planning to achieve by 2050? .0: https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.12657/46096/2021_Book_2050China.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.12657/4609...
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  The fact that you believe that China is anything more than a run of the mill capitalist authoritarian regime is cute.
  - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
    > The fact that you believe that China is anything more than a run of the mill capitalist authoritarian regime is cute. Not the most elegant way to show me you're out of arguments
    - jonathankoren 3y ago
      I’m sorry I gave you the impression that I was debating you. I’m not.
- TheGigaChad 3y ago
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