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> it’s exactly the same thing with different branding Yet capitalists will consistenly pick fascism, when given the choice. Pretty weird, considering it's exac

> it’s exactly the same thing with different branding Yet capitalists will consistenly pick fascism, when given the choice. Pretty weird, considering it's exactly the same thing. You are conflating fascism and communism with authoritarianism. A more in depth and unbiased study might give you the ability to grasp such subtle differences.

golergka 3y ago
> Yet capitalists will consistenly pick fascism, when given the choice. No, capitalists choose laissez-faire. What you are referring to are state capitalists, and they are essentially the same everywhere: whether it’s Mikoyan in the USSR, Gustav Krupp in Nazi Germany, or Dick Cheney in the United States. They all utilize the state’s monopoly on violence to maintain their economic control.
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  I’m happy to learn Peter Thiel and Elon Musk are not True Capitalists(tm).
flohofwoe 3y ago
How does that idea fit with real-world China which runs a state-capitalist economy under an authoritarian communist rule? You are right though that authoritarianism seems to be a pre-condition both for communist and fascist regimes.
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  How does that idea fit with real-world China which runs a state-capitalist economy under an authoritarian communist rule? China has done what needed to be done to realize what is an unprecedented economic miracle, especially considering it's a socialist country surrounded by a hostile capitalist world. They chose to be pragmatic and it worked incredibly well. While China certainly has capitalists and bilionaires, they are kept in check. China also set a 2050 target to fully transition to socialism. You are right though that authoritarianism seems to be a pre-condition both for communist and fascist regimes. Every society has a ruling class. In fascist societies it's the military together with the capital, in liberal societies it's the bourgeoisie, in socialist societies it's the working class. Authoritarian societies use force to maintain order, liberal societies use the illusion of choice. When that doesn't work, they promptly revert to force as everyone else.
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    > They also set a 2050 target to fully transition to socialism. Lol, that sounds strangely familiar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism > in socialist societies it's the working class Do you really believe this? All socialist countries so far ended up very quickly (or more likely: started with) being ruled by a very small elite comprised of the top of a single political party. Ah but of course I know - those weren't actually socialist societies but authoritarian regimes in diguise, but next time it will work you'll see! Jesus Christ...
    - jonathankoren 3y ago
      His link to 100+ page book doesn’t even claim “full socialism”. He’s just a tank.
      - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
        The title is literally "2050 China - Becoming a Great Modern Socialist Country". Did you even read before insulting me? Since you couldn't possibly have read those 100 pages since I shared the book with you, I must conclude you simply CTRL+F for "full socialism", which is the funniest thing I've witnessed in a long time. Also I'm really curious to know what is your definition of "full socialism". Can you provide one without resorting to Wikipedia?
  - chrysler 3y ago
    >> in socialist societies it's the working class How does it manifest itself? Did the Eastern Bloc working class have the best access to education, medicine and goods? Was there no party elite with dedicated hospitals and exclusive stores open only to them? Did the working class have any say who and how ran the countries? Could a working man even plant their version of a "Biden blows" sign in front yard without imprisonment?
  - golergka 3y ago
    Their economic miracle was created by Henry Kissinger and globalization. Building a fascist regime was not a prerequisite for it, but is for problems that they are facing now.
TheGigaChad 3y ago
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golergka 3y ago

> Yet capitalists will consistenly pick fascism, when given the choice. No, capitalists choose laissez-faire. What you are referring to are state capitalists, and they are essentially the same everywhere: whether it’s Mikoyan in the USSR, Gustav Krupp in Nazi Germany, or Dick Cheney in the United States. They all utilize the state’s monopoly on violence to maintain their economic control.

jonathankoren 3y ago
I’m happy to learn Peter Thiel and Elon Musk are not True Capitalists(tm).

flohofwoe 3y ago

How does that idea fit with real-world China which runs a state-capitalist economy under an authoritarian communist rule? You are right though that authoritarianism seems to be a pre-condition both for communist and fascist regimes.

pastacacioepepe 3y ago
How does that idea fit with real-world China which runs a state-capitalist economy under an authoritarian communist rule? China has done what needed to be done to realize what is an unprecedented economic miracle, especially considering it's a socialist country surrounded by a hostile capitalist world. They chose to be pragmatic and it worked incredibly well. While China certainly has capitalists and bilionaires, they are kept in check. China also set a 2050 target to fully transition to socialism. You are right though that authoritarianism seems to be a pre-condition both for communist and fascist regimes. Every society has a ruling class. In fascist societies it's the military together with the capital, in liberal societies it's the bourgeoisie, in socialist societies it's the working class. Authoritarian societies use force to maintain order, liberal societies use the illusion of choice. When that doesn't work, they promptly revert to force as everyone else.
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  > They also set a 2050 target to fully transition to socialism. Lol, that sounds strangely familiar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism > in socialist societies it's the working class Do you really believe this? All socialist countries so far ended up very quickly (or more likely: started with) being ruled by a very small elite comprised of the top of a single political party. Ah but of course I know - those weren't actually socialist societies but authoritarian regimes in diguise, but next time it will work you'll see! Jesus Christ...
  - jonathankoren 3y ago
    His link to 100+ page book doesn’t even claim “full socialism”. He’s just a tank.
    - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
      The title is literally "2050 China - Becoming a Great Modern Socialist Country". Did you even read before insulting me? Since you couldn't possibly have read those 100 pages since I shared the book with you, I must conclude you simply CTRL+F for "full socialism", which is the funniest thing I've witnessed in a long time. Also I'm really curious to know what is your definition of "full socialism". Can you provide one without resorting to Wikipedia?
- chrysler 3y ago
  >> in socialist societies it's the working class How does it manifest itself? Did the Eastern Bloc working class have the best access to education, medicine and goods? Was there no party elite with dedicated hospitals and exclusive stores open only to them? Did the working class have any say who and how ran the countries? Could a working man even plant their version of a "Biden blows" sign in front yard without imprisonment?
- golergka 3y ago
  Their economic miracle was created by Henry Kissinger and globalization. Building a fascist regime was not a prerequisite for it, but is for problems that they are facing now.

TheGigaChad 3y ago

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