5 ms·

> Sometimes I have the impression that Hollywood movies gave people a permanent wrong perception yes, people have a very strange image of the soviet union some

by kome 3y ago

> Sometimes I have the impression that Hollywood movies gave people a permanent wrong perception yes, people have a very strange image of the soviet union somehow. the 90s have been the worse period by far in the ex-soviet union. before the system was in crisis, but sort of worked for most. and in the 50s, 60s was working fairly well. 70s decline, 80s crisis.

dustymcp 3y ago
Fairly well on what scale?
- Carioca 3y ago
  On the scale that the CIA said the average citizen of the USSR ate better than their counterpart in the US[1], while still having a lot of science and engineering going on. Material conditions in the USSR improved dramatically after WW2. A lot more than, say, here in Brazil, where we never had a communist regime though we did have a US-backed dictatorship [1]: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R0006014...
  - chrysler 3y ago
    CIA notoriously overestimated the USSR by assuming competence within (what seemed to them) reasonable bounds. Bananas were luxury items and this sad thing was the most popular ice cream, fondly remembered to this day, because there was nothing better: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Plombir_in_der_Waffel.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Plombir_... In some select border regions that could pick up foreign TV channels (Karelia and Estonia), authorities told that the grocery stores shown in commercials were a CIA psyop. Soviet citizens up to to the highest levels of party elite were deeply shaken when they could finally travel and experience them in person: https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When... Imagine coming from that pathetic ice cream and suddenly seeing huge shelves full of everything you can imagine, and not only ice cream, but all other categories too. That was a tremendous cultural shock to anyone who had grown up in the USSR, beyond wildest imagination. The idea that US and USSR were equals or even anything near it is totally absurd. You can see the same tradition continue in how Russia's potential in Ukraine was ridiculously overestimated, and how mundane things like toilet bowls and washing machines are deemed by Russian soldiers and officers as worthy of looting.
    - mrcode007 3y ago
      The “sad thing” was so good it made its way to other countries outside of the USSR and is to this day served in many places. I can confirm from the first hand experience that it has no equals in the western world.
      - chrysler 3y ago
        Stockholm syndrome. My father swears by rock hard toffee candy, because that's how they were by the time they reached his local store. Modern iteration that stays soft as intended and melts in mouth is blasphemy according to him.
        notdang 3y ago
        No,in this case it's different, the ice cream is still made in the ex-URSS countries and you can still try it and you can still not find anything like this outside.
      - mongol 3y ago
        Where can I go to have one, today? What makes it special?
        lnsru 3y ago
        Every Lidl has it in Europe I guess. Here in random Lidl on Adria shore it’s being sold by Monolith group (some Eastern Europe company shell) and made in some far far away ex-soviet country. Nothing special, but nostalgia. On other hand other products in the same freezer were not better.
        mongol 3y ago
        Lidl, great, I will check it out
        notdang 3y ago
        It's a basic ice cream without any artificially added flavors, even without the vanilla flavor. It's dense and soft. The special part for me is that it's basic, vanilla how it's called in the US, but even without vanilla. However it's hard to explain to someone who grew with all the ice cream having some sort of added flavour.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    During the years after WW2, the USSR has stolen huge amounts from East Germany and from the other East European countries, in various forms, from factories moved tool by tool from Germany to Russia, to huge bogus war reparations paid by other countries, to mixed companies owned by USSR and the local states, supposedly for cooperation in agricultural production, mining operations or forest exploitation, where the Soviets contributed nothing, except some general manager to oversee the local workers, but they took most or all of the production, exactly like it was done in the past in the colonies of the "imperialists" that the Soviets loved to criticize. So there is no wonder that "Material conditions in the USSR improved dramatically after WW2". However, after 1960 the flow of stolen valuables from the occupied countries has progressively dried and eventually the internal corruption made impossible to maintain the previous material conditions of USSR, much less improve them.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 3y ago
        I just replied to you at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36207426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36207426 but need to add that attacks like this are completely not ok on HN and if you continue to do it we are going to have to ban you again. I don't want to ban you, so if you would please fix this and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        thriftwy 3y ago
        HN offers no long-term benefits for having old accounts - the only signs of distinction an existing account can get is being throttled or shadow banned. So practically it is better for you to warn me and hope that I compel, than ban me and have me getting a new all-good account promptly with no prior convictions. I can see how I could worded both of these better, though.
elboru 3y ago
> 90s have been the worse period by far in the ex-soviet union Only if you ignore the gulag period.
- kashunstva 3y ago
  > Only if you ignore the gulag period. Which, of course, encompasses the majority of Soviet history. (Speaking of which, Anne Applebaum’s “Gulag: A History” is an excellent introduction to a camp system and culture whose scale and cruelty is little appreciated in the West.)
  - notdang 3y ago
    Gulag period ended with the death of Stalin. After that no mass incarcerations and deportations were happening on the industrial scale.

by kome 3y ago

dustymcp 3y ago

Fairly well on what scale?

Carioca 3y ago
On the scale that the CIA said the average citizen of the USSR ate better than their counterpart in the US[1], while still having a lot of science and engineering going on. Material conditions in the USSR improved dramatically after WW2. A lot more than, say, here in Brazil, where we never had a communist regime though we did have a US-backed dictatorship [1]: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R0006014...
- chrysler 3y ago
  CIA notoriously overestimated the USSR by assuming competence within (what seemed to them) reasonable bounds. Bananas were luxury items and this sad thing was the most popular ice cream, fondly remembered to this day, because there was nothing better: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Plombir_in_der_Waffel.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Plombir_... In some select border regions that could pick up foreign TV channels (Karelia and Estonia), authorities told that the grocery stores shown in commercials were a CIA psyop. Soviet citizens up to to the highest levels of party elite were deeply shaken when they could finally travel and experience them in person: https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When... Imagine coming from that pathetic ice cream and suddenly seeing huge shelves full of everything you can imagine, and not only ice cream, but all other categories too. That was a tremendous cultural shock to anyone who had grown up in the USSR, beyond wildest imagination. The idea that US and USSR were equals or even anything near it is totally absurd. You can see the same tradition continue in how Russia's potential in Ukraine was ridiculously overestimated, and how mundane things like toilet bowls and washing machines are deemed by Russian soldiers and officers as worthy of looting.
  - mrcode007 3y ago
    The “sad thing” was so good it made its way to other countries outside of the USSR and is to this day served in many places. I can confirm from the first hand experience that it has no equals in the western world.
    - chrysler 3y ago
      Stockholm syndrome. My father swears by rock hard toffee candy, because that's how they were by the time they reached his local store. Modern iteration that stays soft as intended and melts in mouth is blasphemy according to him.
      - notdang 3y ago
        No,in this case it's different, the ice cream is still made in the ex-URSS countries and you can still try it and you can still not find anything like this outside.
    - mongol 3y ago
      Where can I go to have one, today? What makes it special?
      - lnsru 3y ago
        Every Lidl has it in Europe I guess. Here in random Lidl on Adria shore it’s being sold by Monolith group (some Eastern Europe company shell) and made in some far far away ex-soviet country. Nothing special, but nostalgia. On other hand other products in the same freezer were not better.
        mongol 3y ago
        Lidl, great, I will check it out
      - notdang 3y ago
        It's a basic ice cream without any artificially added flavors, even without the vanilla flavor. It's dense and soft. The special part for me is that it's basic, vanilla how it's called in the US, but even without vanilla. However it's hard to explain to someone who grew with all the ice cream having some sort of added flavour.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  During the years after WW2, the USSR has stolen huge amounts from East Germany and from the other East European countries, in various forms, from factories moved tool by tool from Germany to Russia, to huge bogus war reparations paid by other countries, to mixed companies owned by USSR and the local states, supposedly for cooperation in agricultural production, mining operations or forest exploitation, where the Soviets contributed nothing, except some general manager to oversee the local workers, but they took most or all of the production, exactly like it was done in the past in the colonies of the "imperialists" that the Soviets loved to criticize. So there is no wonder that "Material conditions in the USSR improved dramatically after WW2". However, after 1960 the flow of stolen valuables from the occupied countries has progressively dried and eventually the internal corruption made impossible to maintain the previous material conditions of USSR, much less improve them.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 3y ago
      I just replied to you at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36207426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36207426 but need to add that attacks like this are completely not ok on HN and if you continue to do it we are going to have to ban you again. I don't want to ban you, so if you would please fix this and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - thriftwy 3y ago
        HN offers no long-term benefits for having old accounts - the only signs of distinction an existing account can get is being throttled or shadow banned. So practically it is better for you to warn me and hope that I compel, than ban me and have me getting a new all-good account promptly with no prior convictions. I can see how I could worded both of these better, though.

elboru 3y ago

> 90s have been the worse period by far in the ex-soviet union Only if you ignore the gulag period.

kashunstva 3y ago
> Only if you ignore the gulag period. Which, of course, encompasses the majority of Soviet history. (Speaking of which, Anne Applebaum’s “Gulag: A History” is an excellent introduction to a camp system and culture whose scale and cruelty is little appreciated in the West.)
- notdang 3y ago
  Gulag period ended with the death of Stalin. After that no mass incarcerations and deportations were happening on the industrial scale.