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Sweden has the lowest excess deaths count in the western world. They didn't lock down. That's not a coincidence. Lockdowns increased social dysfunction, and

by JPKab 3y ago

Sweden has the lowest excess deaths count in the western world. They didn't lock down. That's not a coincidence. Lockdowns increased social dysfunction, and this is the root of excess deaths. Funny how you also aren't mentioning the education disaster that the hysterical, statistically illiterate cowards who closed schools caused. Schools in EU and Asia were open. Just the North American fools closed theirs. Btw, I know many people who blame excess deaths on the mRNA vaccines. They have the same data that you do for your theory of covid infection causing excess deaths: correlation and nothing else. Drug overdoses are way up. Crime is up. Loneliness and depression and mental illness are at all time highs. The vast majority of covid deaths were senior citizens. The vast majority of excess deaths happening now are working age people. And cowards who became irrational won't admit this because it's too painful for them to admit their complicity.

phs318u 3y ago
> Sweden has the lowest excess deaths count in the western world Is that per capita or absolute numbers? Could you provide a reference?
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Isn't Sweden already spread out? Kind of isolated already? It does seem like Sweden is held up as some special case as justification that lockdowns didn't need to happen. But aren't Swedes generally thin and healthy? Americans are fat and sick already, and probably less sanitary too, so not having lockdowns would have bigger impact.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
That the vaccine causes more deaths than the virus itself is kind of a conspiracy theory. How is that even being used as reasoning these days? Just saying correlation isn't causation is a cop out, just because something is correlated doesn't mean it can't be reasoned about, used as a data point. Everything you say is true, it was hard times for a lot of people, drug use, crime, suicides, all up. What is wrong is using that to justify that we should have let more people die from the disease itself. "Man, we would be so much better off, with less drug us, less crime, less suicides, if we had just allowed more people to die. If we only had the courage to let this spread naturally and allow more people to die, and be put out of their misery, times would be better now".
lesuorac 3y ago
Not Swedish but a cursory read seems to show that they did ban gatherings (as small as 8+ people!). So, if Sweden is the pinnacle of Covid response then banning people from gathering (i.e. lockdowns) was correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Ban_on_gatherings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_government_response_to...
hn976827 3y ago
> Sweden has the lowest excess deaths count in the western world. This is false and full-on misinformation. It's sad to to see it in a forum like HN. > They didn't lock down. This is misleading as well. The Swedish public works differently. There is a high trust in government and authorities. The govt said this is dangerous, stay at home if you can, so people did. The degree of distancing was on par with all other Western countries. Source: I live there. It's not possible to do this in other countries because people wouldn't give a damn unless there is a fine. I won't comment the rest, you are too deep into conspiracy theory territory.
- JPKab 3y ago
  It's not false, and it's not "full-on misinformation". You provide zero sources to refute this claim, and claim that you "live there", as if that makes a single difference with the statistics or data. Sweden indeed has the lowest excess deaths from all cause mortality, according to the OECD statistics referenced and linked to in this article, which is one of hundred published on this topic. Note that Sweden's excess deaths were not the lowest in the height of the pandemic, but fell to the lowest in 2022. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sweden-covid-and-excess-deaths-a-look-at-the-data/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sweden-covid-and-excess-... "Conspiracy theory territory" is an ad-hominem smear with zero substance behind it. I said nothing in my comment to claim any "conspiracy", and if you think that then you should reread what I wrote.

by JPKab 3y ago

phs318u 3y ago

> Sweden has the lowest excess deaths count in the western world Is that per capita or absolute numbers? Could you provide a reference?

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

Isn't Sweden already spread out? Kind of isolated already? It does seem like Sweden is held up as some special case as justification that lockdowns didn't need to happen. But aren't Swedes generally thin and healthy? Americans are fat and sick already, and probably less sanitary too, so not having lockdowns would have bigger impact.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

That the vaccine causes more deaths than the virus itself is kind of a conspiracy theory. How is that even being used as reasoning these days? Just saying correlation isn't causation is a cop out, just because something is correlated doesn't mean it can't be reasoned about, used as a data point. Everything you say is true, it was hard times for a lot of people, drug use, crime, suicides, all up. What is wrong is using that to justify that we should have let more people die from the disease itself. "Man, we would be so much better off, with less drug us, less crime, less suicides, if we had just allowed more people to die. If we only had the courage to let this spread naturally and allow more people to die, and be put out of their misery, times would be better now".

lesuorac 3y ago

Not Swedish but a cursory read seems to show that they did ban gatherings (as small as 8+ people!). So, if Sweden is the pinnacle of Covid response then banning people from gathering (i.e. lockdowns) was correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Ban_on_gatherings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_government_response_to...

hn976827 3y ago

> Sweden has the lowest excess deaths count in the western world. This is false and full-on misinformation. It's sad to to see it in a forum like HN. > They didn't lock down. This is misleading as well. The Swedish public works differently. There is a high trust in government and authorities. The govt said this is dangerous, stay at home if you can, so people did. The degree of distancing was on par with all other Western countries. Source: I live there. It's not possible to do this in other countries because people wouldn't give a damn unless there is a fine. I won't comment the rest, you are too deep into conspiracy theory territory.

JPKab 3y ago
It's not false, and it's not "full-on misinformation". You provide zero sources to refute this claim, and claim that you "live there", as if that makes a single difference with the statistics or data. Sweden indeed has the lowest excess deaths from all cause mortality, according to the OECD statistics referenced and linked to in this article, which is one of hundred published on this topic. Note that Sweden's excess deaths were not the lowest in the height of the pandemic, but fell to the lowest in 2022. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sweden-covid-and-excess-deaths-a-look-at-the-data/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sweden-covid-and-excess-... "Conspiracy theory territory" is an ad-hominem smear with zero substance behind it. I said nothing in my comment to claim any "conspiracy", and if you think that then you should reread what I wrote.