4 ms·

That's great that a philosophy major has a blog and a Facebook group for his pet theory. There is no science here. I hate how vapid the this space is, there is

That's great that a philosophy major has a blog and a Facebook group for his pet theory. There is no science here. I hate how vapid the this space is, there is so much guesswork and making things up. His comment about wearing underpowered lenses for example, has been repeatedly shown to either have no effect or worsen myopia https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cxo.12978 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cxo.12978 His idea that you can look at slightly doubled things in defocus and work to "fuse" them is insane, he just did something on a walk by chance and then somehow claimed it's part of the process. Again, as far as science knows, there is no way to reverse myopia. It's like asking how to make your liver less elongated. The tissue has grown into the shape it's in, it doesn't reshape itself over time.

aatd86 3y ago
I did it partially so your hard statements might need to be toned down. I have proof from several opthalmologist exams just in case one wonders. And the reversal has been subsequent (several diopters). Although I haven't exactly followed the protocols on endmyopia but am aware of their existence, I have been scientific enough to try so I have this anecdotal result that it is possible at least. As far as science knows, axial elongation is reversible in rhesus monkeys and isn't even fixed in the first place.
- stevebmark 3y ago
  > As far as science knows, axial elongation is reversible in rhesus monkeys and isn't even fixed in the first place. Source?
  - Aulig 3y ago
    There's been plenty of human experiments by now even, check out the myopic defocus section https://wiki.reducedlens.org/wiki/Clinical_Studies https://wiki.reducedlens.org/wiki/Clinical_Studies
    - stevebmark 3y ago
      To clarify, none of the studies you linked to show reversal of myopia in humans. Some of them show a fast-acting (minutes to hours) effect of defocus on small axial length reduction. I don't know what is happening in the eye here (muscular?) but it's obviously not the physical reshaping of the eye's structure required to reverse myopia. The rest of the studies, like I've said, shown that myopia can be slowed, and maybe stopped, but there is no known way to reverse it. It's disgraceful that section is titled "Reversing Myopia". There is one important study linked in there that I haven't seen before, which I'm guessing the grandparent comment is referring to: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23493295/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23493295/ Assuming this effect isn't the same as the irrelevant short term effect, maybe there's something here. This study is kind of weird as non-standard meta analysis where they didn't do the trials themselves. It's also important to call out that myopia happens primarily in youth, as the eye continuously grows to find focus. For most people this stops between 20-30 years old. The eye stops growing in response to over-focus. If there is a way to reverse myopia in humans (which there is still no evidence for, even with your link), then it may only be possible in youth, not adulthood, when the eye has stopped growing.
placidpanda 3y ago
Anecdote: eye exercises and subsequent vision therapy (went to an ophthalmologist out of pocket) were very beneficial for me (someone with mild myopia and no other diagnosed conditions), I'm thankful I did it, and would recommend to everyone, even those without myopia. I had a small reduction in my rx, and many other benefits. That field didn't exist 30-40 years ago, and it is increasingly common now treating conditions (not myopia) that were previously thought to be non-reversible. But who knows what the future holds.

aatd86 3y ago

I did it partially so your hard statements might need to be toned down. I have proof from several opthalmologist exams just in case one wonders. And the reversal has been subsequent (several diopters). Although I haven't exactly followed the protocols on endmyopia but am aware of their existence, I have been scientific enough to try so I have this anecdotal result that it is possible at least. As far as science knows, axial elongation is reversible in rhesus monkeys and isn't even fixed in the first place.

stevebmark 3y ago
> As far as science knows, axial elongation is reversible in rhesus monkeys and isn't even fixed in the first place. Source?
- Aulig 3y ago
  There's been plenty of human experiments by now even, check out the myopic defocus section https://wiki.reducedlens.org/wiki/Clinical_Studies https://wiki.reducedlens.org/wiki/Clinical_Studies
  - stevebmark 3y ago
    To clarify, none of the studies you linked to show reversal of myopia in humans. Some of them show a fast-acting (minutes to hours) effect of defocus on small axial length reduction. I don't know what is happening in the eye here (muscular?) but it's obviously not the physical reshaping of the eye's structure required to reverse myopia. The rest of the studies, like I've said, shown that myopia can be slowed, and maybe stopped, but there is no known way to reverse it. It's disgraceful that section is titled "Reversing Myopia". There is one important study linked in there that I haven't seen before, which I'm guessing the grandparent comment is referring to: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23493295/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23493295/ Assuming this effect isn't the same as the irrelevant short term effect, maybe there's something here. This study is kind of weird as non-standard meta analysis where they didn't do the trials themselves. It's also important to call out that myopia happens primarily in youth, as the eye continuously grows to find focus. For most people this stops between 20-30 years old. The eye stops growing in response to over-focus. If there is a way to reverse myopia in humans (which there is still no evidence for, even with your link), then it may only be possible in youth, not adulthood, when the eye has stopped growing.

placidpanda 3y ago

Anecdote: eye exercises and subsequent vision therapy (went to an ophthalmologist out of pocket) were very beneficial for me (someone with mild myopia and no other diagnosed conditions), I'm thankful I did it, and would recommend to everyone, even those without myopia. I had a small reduction in my rx, and many other benefits. That field didn't exist 30-40 years ago, and it is increasingly common now treating conditions (not myopia) that were previously thought to be non-reversible. But who knows what the future holds.