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Speaking of the U.N. votes. Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of nazism. Can you guess which countries?

by gdy 3y ago

Speaking of the U.N. votes. Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of nazism. Can you guess which countries? Right. The Ukraine and the US.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of Nazism. 51 in the most recent iteration of Russia’s annual hollow ritual, that has gotten extra hollow as it has become the main current implementor of exactly the things for which the Nazis are generally condemned, from aggressive war to genocide: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/why-france-and-51-other-countries-voted-against-the-un-resolution-condemning-nazism_6003471_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/w...
- gdy 3y ago
  "annual hollow ritual" What exactly makes it hollow? "to genocide" Now this was hollow. Or do you call war crimes perpetrated in Afghanistan by the US and its allies [0][1] a genocide too? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO_and_allies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO...
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    Even more whataboutism to get back on topic: russian soldiers have been found by UN war crimes investigators to have raped, tortured, and murdered men, women, and children as young as 4, in areas of Ukraine russia controls[0] (this child rape by russians is in addition to genociding Ukrainians in general -- and I'm not referring to russian deportation of Crimean Tatars [1], or russian killing of millions of Ukrainians in the Holodomor [2]) [0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tort... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
    - gdy 3y ago
      "children as young as 4" This reminds me of something [0]. "In her testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, remove the incubators and leave the babies to die." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > What exactly makes it hollow? The fact that it is nonbinding resolution ritually offered every year, connected to no substantive action. > Or do you call war crimes perpetrated in Afghanistan by the US and its allies a genocide too? No, because “genocide” has a definition, and its not synonymous with the broader category of “war crimes”. Attempts to destroy a people as a people, as Russia is fairly overtly doing in Ukraine (accompanied by propaganda, as such efforts often are, denying that the identity sought to be destroyed is legitimate) is genocide. Other war crimes – which Russia is also committing Ukraine – are, well, other war crimes.
    - gdy 3y ago
      "“genocide” has a definition" That's a good starting point. "Attempts to destroy a people as a people, as Russia is fairly overtly doing in Ukraine" Here is the definition [0]. Now what Russian actions fit it? [0] https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
    - gdy 3y ago
      "it is nonbinding resolution" All General Assembly resolutions are nonbinding. Including all of them that condemn the war in the Ukraine. "ritually" That's your perception. "connected to no substantive action" You might ask Ukraine why doesn't it follow the resolution and doesn't take any actions to stop rehabilitating Nazi collaborators. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36175047 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36175047
_kbh_ 3y ago
hmm this isn't the entire story, >50 Nations voted against it this year and Canada and the US have consistently voted against it for 10 years. > Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of nazism. Can you guess which countries? Right. The Ukraine and the US. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/why-france-and-51-other-countries-voted-against-the-un-resolution-condemning-nazism_6003471_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/w... >> Canada and the United States (the only country to have consistently voted against these resolutions for the past 10 years) justified their opposition to this draft resolution, believing that it aimed to "legitimize a discourse based on disinformation."
- gdy 3y ago
  "50 Nations voted against it this year" If you support with money and weapons a country which renamed dozens of streets to glorify Nazi collaborators, why would you vote for the resolution condemning rehabilitation of Nazism? There are almost 20 streets named after Bandera, the leader of OUN-B, in the Ukraine [0], including a big one in the center of the Ukraine's capital. Ukraine's ambassador to Germany compared him to Robin Hood [1]. Here is what two countries that now support Ukraine used to say before the war[2][3]. "Last week, Israel’s ambassador to Ukraine, Joel Lion, and his Polish counterpart Bartosz Cichocki wrote officials an open letter condemning the government-sponsored honoring of Stepan Bandera and Andryi Melnyk, two collaborators with the Third Reich. The two have written on the subject before. In 2018, Lion wrote that he was shocked at an earlier act of veneration for Bandera, saying: “I cannot understand how the glorification of those directly involved in horrible anti-Semitic crimes helps fight anti-Semitism and xenophobia.” ... Ukraine’s ambassador to Israel has told Jerusalem to butt out of the debate about honoring of Nazi collaborators." "Israel and Poland, which have clashed repeatedly in recent years over differing interpretations of the history of the Second World War, came together on Thursday to issue a rare joint condemnation of Ukraine over its efforts to rehabilitate nationalists who collaborated with the Nazis. The criticism came one day after Ukrainians marked the 111th birthday of Stepan Bandera, the wartime leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), a violently anti-Semitic organization that collaborated with the Nazis. Among Holocaust historians, the consensus is that the OUN and its military offshoot, known as the UPA, were responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews and up to 100,000 Poles during the war (estimates vary)." [0] https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Категорія:Вулиці_Степана_Бандери https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Категорія:Вулиці_Степана_Банде... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ukraine-hasbetter-heroes-than-this-friend-of-fascism/2022/07/07/77a14454-fdb2-11ec-b39d-71309168014b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ukraine-hasbetter-he... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-tells-israel-to-stay-out-of-debate-about-honoring-nazi-collaborators/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-tells-israel-to-stay-o... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gdy&next=35753394 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gdy&next=35753394
ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
more whataboutism, unsurprising. speaking of UN votes: fewer than 3% of countries, representing fewer than 3% of people in the world, were willing to go on record saying they trust russia's claims and excuses when they said the same thing can you guess who they were? hint: one was russia

by gdy 3y ago

Speaking of the U.N. votes. Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of nazism. Can you guess which countries? Right. The Ukraine and the US.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of Nazism. 51 in the most recent iteration of Russia’s annual hollow ritual, that has gotten extra hollow as it has become the main current implementor of exactly the things for which the Nazis are generally condemned, from aggressive war to genocide: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/why-france-and-51-other-countries-voted-against-the-un-resolution-condemning-nazism_6003471_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/w...

gdy 3y ago
"annual hollow ritual" What exactly makes it hollow? "to genocide" Now this was hollow. Or do you call war crimes perpetrated in Afghanistan by the US and its allies [0][1] a genocide too? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO_and_allies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO...
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  Even more whataboutism to get back on topic: russian soldiers have been found by UN war crimes investigators to have raped, tortured, and murdered men, women, and children as young as 4, in areas of Ukraine russia controls[0] (this child rape by russians is in addition to genociding Ukrainians in general -- and I'm not referring to russian deportation of Crimean Tatars [1], or russian killing of millions of Ukrainians in the Holodomor [2]) [0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tort... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
  - gdy 3y ago
    "children as young as 4" This reminds me of something [0]. "In her testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, remove the incubators and leave the babies to die." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > What exactly makes it hollow? The fact that it is nonbinding resolution ritually offered every year, connected to no substantive action. > Or do you call war crimes perpetrated in Afghanistan by the US and its allies a genocide too? No, because “genocide” has a definition, and its not synonymous with the broader category of “war crimes”. Attempts to destroy a people as a people, as Russia is fairly overtly doing in Ukraine (accompanied by propaganda, as such efforts often are, denying that the identity sought to be destroyed is legitimate) is genocide. Other war crimes – which Russia is also committing Ukraine – are, well, other war crimes.
  - gdy 3y ago
    "“genocide” has a definition" That's a good starting point. "Attempts to destroy a people as a people, as Russia is fairly overtly doing in Ukraine" Here is the definition [0]. Now what Russian actions fit it? [0] https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
  - gdy 3y ago
    "it is nonbinding resolution" All General Assembly resolutions are nonbinding. Including all of them that condemn the war in the Ukraine. "ritually" That's your perception. "connected to no substantive action" You might ask Ukraine why doesn't it follow the resolution and doesn't take any actions to stop rehabilitating Nazi collaborators. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36175047 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36175047

_kbh_ 3y ago

hmm this isn't the entire story, >50 Nations voted against it this year and Canada and the US have consistently voted against it for 10 years. > Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of nazism. Can you guess which countries? Right. The Ukraine and the US. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/why-france-and-51-other-countries-voted-against-the-un-resolution-condemning-nazism_6003471_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/w... >> Canada and the United States (the only country to have consistently voted against these resolutions for the past 10 years) justified their opposition to this draft resolution, believing that it aimed to "legitimize a discourse based on disinformation."

gdy 3y ago
"50 Nations voted against it this year" If you support with money and weapons a country which renamed dozens of streets to glorify Nazi collaborators, why would you vote for the resolution condemning rehabilitation of Nazism? There are almost 20 streets named after Bandera, the leader of OUN-B, in the Ukraine [0], including a big one in the center of the Ukraine's capital. Ukraine's ambassador to Germany compared him to Robin Hood [1]. Here is what two countries that now support Ukraine used to say before the war[2][3]. "Last week, Israel’s ambassador to Ukraine, Joel Lion, and his Polish counterpart Bartosz Cichocki wrote officials an open letter condemning the government-sponsored honoring of Stepan Bandera and Andryi Melnyk, two collaborators with the Third Reich. The two have written on the subject before. In 2018, Lion wrote that he was shocked at an earlier act of veneration for Bandera, saying: “I cannot understand how the glorification of those directly involved in horrible anti-Semitic crimes helps fight anti-Semitism and xenophobia.” ... Ukraine’s ambassador to Israel has told Jerusalem to butt out of the debate about honoring of Nazi collaborators." "Israel and Poland, which have clashed repeatedly in recent years over differing interpretations of the history of the Second World War, came together on Thursday to issue a rare joint condemnation of Ukraine over its efforts to rehabilitate nationalists who collaborated with the Nazis. The criticism came one day after Ukrainians marked the 111th birthday of Stepan Bandera, the wartime leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), a violently anti-Semitic organization that collaborated with the Nazis. Among Holocaust historians, the consensus is that the OUN and its military offshoot, known as the UPA, were responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews and up to 100,000 Poles during the war (estimates vary)." [0] https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Категорія:Вулиці_Степана_Бандери https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Категорія:Вулиці_Степана_Банде... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ukraine-hasbetter-heroes-than-this-friend-of-fascism/2022/07/07/77a14454-fdb2-11ec-b39d-71309168014b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ukraine-hasbetter-he... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-tells-israel-to-stay-out-of-debate-about-honoring-nazi-collaborators/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-tells-israel-to-stay-o... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gdy&next=35753394 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gdy&next=35753394

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago

more whataboutism, unsurprising. speaking of UN votes: fewer than 3% of countries, representing fewer than 3% of people in the world, were willing to go on record saying they trust russia's claims and excuses when they said the same thing can you guess who they were? hint: one was russia