4 ms·

The moral of the story is that Nvidia invested a lot more in low level software developers for their GPU solutions and AMD did not, and it shows. "Open source"

The moral of the story is that Nvidia invested a lot more in low level software developers for their GPU solutions and AMD did not, and it shows. "Open source" by itself is not a magic dust you can sprinkle on your projfcts that will make your software work well.

newjersey 3y ago
I personally don't have any insider information but just wanted to add what your saying fits with the meta on the gaming community side where commentators are frustrated that nVidia has so much hubris that they think they can just sell essentially last generation level technology without the step up (I think it was 3xxx vs 4xxx or something like that where you'd expect the 4060Ti to be at least as good as 3070Ti) and just trying to make up for it in "software". It probably takes a lot of confidence in your software developers to make this kind of decisions.
gary_0 3y ago
A company that goes open source might get the icing for free, but they still have to bake the cake themselves.
williamDafoe 3y ago
AMD's focus was always on pure compute power at a good price. And they always beat NVidia at that game. AMD cards always had the highest hash rate per dollar in crypto mining. AMD has 100% of the console market and the fastest iGPUs by 2x over Intel. NVidia decided to use gimmicks to sell their cards including texture compression, lighting tricks, improved antique video encoders, motion smoothing, bad proprietary variable refresh rate, ray tracing, cuda and now machine learning features. Nvidia is fortunate that machine learning has taken off. That is masking AMD winning market share from weak overpriced NVidia 3D products!
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Calling features which are integral to all modern games and most of which also got adopted by other vendors 'gimmicks' is kind of ridiculous.
- Miraste 3y ago
  You're mashing together a lot under "gimmicks" there. Texture compression: Useful for games, ongoing work, although I wish they would make cards with appropriate amounts of VRAM Lighting tricks: Not sure what this is referencing Improved antique video encoders: NVENC started out with only h.264, but now it supports h.265 and AV1, which aren't antique at all. Niche, but widely used in the streaming industry. Motion smoothing: The hardware optical flow accelerators in newer cards are important for DLSS, which is a bit gimmicky but works mostly as advertised. Bad proprietary vrr: No argument here, gsync sucked. Ray tracing: All 3d games are going to be ray traced sooner or later. Getting a head start on it is a good move, and it's a big head start. The 4090 is ~100% faster than the 7900xtx. CUDA: No one can seriously call CUDA a gimmick. Machine learning features: Tensor cores are great.
  - DiabloD3 3y ago
    CUDA is a gimmick though. CUDA isn't a "technology", its a shader language that has been supplanted by better industry-wide standards.... the same standards whose shader languages are compiled by the same Nvidia shader compiler. CUDA is a moat whose muddy waters has long since ran dry, and you're drinking koolaid if you think its still relevant for greenfield projects.
    - kcb 3y ago
      > and you're drinking koolaid if you think its still relevant for greenfield projects. So I want to start a new GPU compute project today. Obviously this will primarily be deployed to AWS/Azure/etc, which means only high-end GPUs available are Nvidia. What do you recommend developing this application with? The way I see it, you would have to be drinking koolaid to use anything besides CUDA.
      - DiabloD3 3y ago
        Why do you think I can't use standard APIs on Nvidia? I literally just said same compiler does both; Nvidia sits on the Khronos committee! They co-wrote the API that everyone uses, that their compiler also speaks!
- waboremo 3y ago
  That's a wild perspective. I don't know how you can really come to that conclusion either. One attempt at getting Blender to render something using an AMD vs Nvidia card will paint a very very clear picture.
- PHGamer 3y ago
  and yet amd lately has been quietly just been slightly less than nvidia but worse product. amd sucks thats just it. their market share is crumbling and nvidias is getting stronger because people are like fuck it, at that price might as well jsut buy the better one that Just works TM
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaymaths 3y ago
  You're entitled to your opinion (which I agree with in broad strokes) but with respect, the op article is specifically about ML. Calling cuda a "gimmick" is silly and completely underestimating the datacenter/ML cluster market share (it dwarfs consumer GPU), and fact of the matter is AMD's CUDA equivalent segfaults. So if "being actually usable to the biggest market" is a gimmick, so be it.
- merb 3y ago
  > AMD has 100% of the console market thats not true, since the switch is based on an nvidia platform. since it's still 1/3 of the market, it's not as bad as it used to be.

newjersey 3y ago

I personally don't have any insider information but just wanted to add what your saying fits with the meta on the gaming community side where commentators are frustrated that nVidia has so much hubris that they think they can just sell essentially last generation level technology without the step up (I think it was 3xxx vs 4xxx or something like that where you'd expect the 4060Ti to be at least as good as 3070Ti) and just trying to make up for it in "software". It probably takes a lot of confidence in your software developers to make this kind of decisions.

gary_0 3y ago

A company that goes open source might get the icing for free, but they still have to bake the cake themselves.

williamDafoe 3y ago

AMD's focus was always on pure compute power at a good price. And they always beat NVidia at that game. AMD cards always had the highest hash rate per dollar in crypto mining. AMD has 100% of the console market and the fastest iGPUs by 2x over Intel. NVidia decided to use gimmicks to sell their cards including texture compression, lighting tricks, improved antique video encoders, motion smoothing, bad proprietary variable refresh rate, ray tracing, cuda and now machine learning features. Nvidia is fortunate that machine learning has taken off. That is masking AMD winning market share from weak overpriced NVidia 3D products!

dotnet00 3y ago
Calling features which are integral to all modern games and most of which also got adopted by other vendors 'gimmicks' is kind of ridiculous.
Miraste 3y ago
You're mashing together a lot under "gimmicks" there. Texture compression: Useful for games, ongoing work, although I wish they would make cards with appropriate amounts of VRAM Lighting tricks: Not sure what this is referencing Improved antique video encoders: NVENC started out with only h.264, but now it supports h.265 and AV1, which aren't antique at all. Niche, but widely used in the streaming industry. Motion smoothing: The hardware optical flow accelerators in newer cards are important for DLSS, which is a bit gimmicky but works mostly as advertised. Bad proprietary vrr: No argument here, gsync sucked. Ray tracing: All 3d games are going to be ray traced sooner or later. Getting a head start on it is a good move, and it's a big head start. The 4090 is ~100% faster than the 7900xtx. CUDA: No one can seriously call CUDA a gimmick. Machine learning features: Tensor cores are great.
- DiabloD3 3y ago
  CUDA is a gimmick though. CUDA isn't a "technology", its a shader language that has been supplanted by better industry-wide standards.... the same standards whose shader languages are compiled by the same Nvidia shader compiler. CUDA is a moat whose muddy waters has long since ran dry, and you're drinking koolaid if you think its still relevant for greenfield projects.
  - kcb 3y ago
    > and you're drinking koolaid if you think its still relevant for greenfield projects. So I want to start a new GPU compute project today. Obviously this will primarily be deployed to AWS/Azure/etc, which means only high-end GPUs available are Nvidia. What do you recommend developing this application with? The way I see it, you would have to be drinking koolaid to use anything besides CUDA.
    - DiabloD3 3y ago
      Why do you think I can't use standard APIs on Nvidia? I literally just said same compiler does both; Nvidia sits on the Khronos committee! They co-wrote the API that everyone uses, that their compiler also speaks!
waboremo 3y ago
That's a wild perspective. I don't know how you can really come to that conclusion either. One attempt at getting Blender to render something using an AMD vs Nvidia card will paint a very very clear picture.
PHGamer 3y ago
and yet amd lately has been quietly just been slightly less than nvidia but worse product. amd sucks thats just it. their market share is crumbling and nvidias is getting stronger because people are like fuck it, at that price might as well jsut buy the better one that Just works TM
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
throwawaymaths 3y ago
You're entitled to your opinion (which I agree with in broad strokes) but with respect, the op article is specifically about ML. Calling cuda a "gimmick" is silly and completely underestimating the datacenter/ML cluster market share (it dwarfs consumer GPU), and fact of the matter is AMD's CUDA equivalent segfaults. So if "being actually usable to the biggest market" is a gimmick, so be it.
merb 3y ago
> AMD has 100% of the console market thats not true, since the switch is based on an nvidia platform. since it's still 1/3 of the market, it's not as bad as it used to be.