5 ms·

I'm always happy to see a speedrunner decompile the game they're running. I've always thought it was an underappreciated part of understanding a game. But I wi

I'm always happy to see a speedrunner decompile the game they're running. I've always thought it was an underappreciated part of understanding a game. But I wish companies would just release their games' original source code after a while. Monkey Island is almost 30 years old, and people have already reverse-engineered it, so they won't be losing too many sales by releasing it. And for Monkey Island specifically it's not a case of losing the source - the original devs gave a copy of the engine and game source to the Video Game History Foundation[^]. But us outsiders will never get to play with it :( [^]: https://gamehistory.org/monkeyisland/ https://gamehistory.org/monkeyisland/

lpapez 3y ago
As a younger dev I often dreamed of devs releasing the source code to ancient games so that I could learn from it, but now that I know how corporate works I've made my peace that it will happen rarely or never. I bet that devs in a company like LucasArts these days need to wait for weeks on corporate to give permission to use a alternate email client, just imagine coming up with a proposal to abandon copyright claim on something. It just can't happen, you would have a very hard time even finding one single person inside the company who might actually have the authority and pull to greenlight it.
- wizzwizz4 3y ago
  Publishing something doesn't mean you disclaim copyright over it.
- moritonal 3y ago
  Fun fact, for a charity event Introversion released the source code for a collection of their old games. But they are also the opposite of big corporate.
- lencastre 3y ago
  Carmack’s release of quake comes to mind. I may misremember,…
  - mewse-hn 3y ago
    Carmack was the textbook definition of rock star programmer and had a sizable portion of company ownership when they released doom/quake code, kinda hard to emulate that as a cog in the machine
    - WeylandYutani 3y ago
      Carmack is from a time when videogame budgets didn't rival Hollywood blockbusters.
- Thorrez 3y ago
  You don't need to abandon the copyright claim to release the source. It can be released under a license that prohibits any redistribution for example.
  - praptak 3y ago
    A proposal to open source will go to an SVP (or compatible) who will cover their ass by sending it to legal. They in turn will cover their asses and demonstrate their perceived worth by enumerating every possible risk however small. The SVP puts it in their "don't touch" pile. Also, nobody within the corporation really benefits from the open sourcing. "I hopefully won some goodwill from nostalgic players" is not a thing you can put into your employee evaluation packet.
- madmoose 3y ago
  You can study the reverse engineered code of a lot game engines. ScummVM is a massive collection of reverse engineered game engines, with the occasional donation of original game code from kind developers.
- kej 3y ago
  It would be nice if it happened more often, but it does happen enough that there's a whole Wikipedia list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games_with_available_source_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games...
erk__ 3y ago
Well the post you are commenting on is the original developer of both the game and SCUMM, so it is not really a decompilation. That said it would be cool to get a commented version of the original code if that exist. Also the tasvideos forum is nice to lean about games on though they are not much for point and click games.
- EscapeFromNY 3y ago
  I hadn't noticed, thanks for pointing that out! There's some fascinating stuff buried in his blog.
lnrd 3y ago
Considering how easy it is to emulate Graphic Adventures thanks to ScummVM, I doubt releasing the source code would impact the sales in any shape or form. People that want to play for free already have the easiest life possible. I think it's one of those cases where emulating is as much convenient as grabbing a copy on Steam. You rise a good point. After X years releasing the code of many things would benefit the public so much without hurting at all the owners, are there movements about this concept?
- madmoose 3y ago
  ScummVM is not emulation, it's primarily a collection of reimplementations of game engines based on reverse engineering, with the occasional donation of original source code from the developers. So with ScummVM you can study how the original SCUMM virtual machine worked, but to see the original SCUMM scripts before they were compiled we have to rely on the kindness of Ron Gilbert :)
  - account42 3y ago
    Emulation doesn't mean just hardware emulation even if some die-hards might want it to. Certainly not in colloquial usage. ScummVM in particular started out as an interpreter for SCUMM bytecode, emulating the original interpreter that ships with the games. It's as much as an emulator for those games as WinE is a Windows Emulator - that is, saying so will make some people upset but being upset does not make them right.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
I actually think most proprietary code should be open sourced eventually. There needs to be really good reason not to, and I don't see those applying to most code.
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  You’ve got some pretty strong demands for services you require others to deliver. What is your contribution?
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    The only "demand" I have is that software products be released as open source instead of just silently dropped out of support and forgotten about. I'm not saying people should be forced to maintain code forever or something. Release the code, let whoever still needs it fork it and maintain it as they please. That way, everybody wins. The original authors don't have to maintain this legacy software forever, or harm their reputation by dumping it. And people don't lose access to things they depend on. Games and game servers are an excellent example of where this is an easy win win situation. I would contribute to keep legacy things I love working, but generally I'm not allowed to at the moment. But I have contributed in the past by buying the products...
    - tinus_hn 3y ago
      Remind me again how developers win by making their old games more accessible, just so people can play their old games for free instead of buying new games. Because that would be one of the wins in the win win situation you claim. In reality, if releasing code was no work, then at best it would be a neutral/win situation. But that’s not reality either, it is work to release code. So it’s a lose/win situation. They lose and you win. They aren’t going to make the effort you demand, just so they lose. In the real world people want something back for their effort and otherwise they are going to put that effort into something that will get them something in return. But it is pretty soothing to know that you would certainly contribute, if only it wasn’t so hard. I’m sure the other people that you demand contributions from don’t experience your hardships.

lpapez 3y ago

As a younger dev I often dreamed of devs releasing the source code to ancient games so that I could learn from it, but now that I know how corporate works I've made my peace that it will happen rarely or never. I bet that devs in a company like LucasArts these days need to wait for weeks on corporate to give permission to use a alternate email client, just imagine coming up with a proposal to abandon copyright claim on something. It just can't happen, you would have a very hard time even finding one single person inside the company who might actually have the authority and pull to greenlight it.

wizzwizz4 3y ago
Publishing something doesn't mean you disclaim copyright over it.
moritonal 3y ago
Fun fact, for a charity event Introversion released the source code for a collection of their old games. But they are also the opposite of big corporate.
lencastre 3y ago
Carmack’s release of quake comes to mind. I may misremember,…
- mewse-hn 3y ago
  Carmack was the textbook definition of rock star programmer and had a sizable portion of company ownership when they released doom/quake code, kinda hard to emulate that as a cog in the machine
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    Carmack is from a time when videogame budgets didn't rival Hollywood blockbusters.
Thorrez 3y ago
You don't need to abandon the copyright claim to release the source. It can be released under a license that prohibits any redistribution for example.
- praptak 3y ago
  A proposal to open source will go to an SVP (or compatible) who will cover their ass by sending it to legal. They in turn will cover their asses and demonstrate their perceived worth by enumerating every possible risk however small. The SVP puts it in their "don't touch" pile. Also, nobody within the corporation really benefits from the open sourcing. "I hopefully won some goodwill from nostalgic players" is not a thing you can put into your employee evaluation packet.
madmoose 3y ago
You can study the reverse engineered code of a lot game engines. ScummVM is a massive collection of reverse engineered game engines, with the occasional donation of original game code from kind developers.
kej 3y ago
It would be nice if it happened more often, but it does happen enough that there's a whole Wikipedia list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games_with_available_source_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games...

erk__ 3y ago

Well the post you are commenting on is the original developer of both the game and SCUMM, so it is not really a decompilation. That said it would be cool to get a commented version of the original code if that exist. Also the tasvideos forum is nice to lean about games on though they are not much for point and click games.

EscapeFromNY 3y ago
I hadn't noticed, thanks for pointing that out! There's some fascinating stuff buried in his blog.

lnrd 3y ago

Considering how easy it is to emulate Graphic Adventures thanks to ScummVM, I doubt releasing the source code would impact the sales in any shape or form. People that want to play for free already have the easiest life possible. I think it's one of those cases where emulating is as much convenient as grabbing a copy on Steam. You rise a good point. After X years releasing the code of many things would benefit the public so much without hurting at all the owners, are there movements about this concept?

madmoose 3y ago
ScummVM is not emulation, it's primarily a collection of reimplementations of game engines based on reverse engineering, with the occasional donation of original source code from the developers. So with ScummVM you can study how the original SCUMM virtual machine worked, but to see the original SCUMM scripts before they were compiled we have to rely on the kindness of Ron Gilbert :)
- account42 3y ago
  Emulation doesn't mean just hardware emulation even if some die-hards might want it to. Certainly not in colloquial usage. ScummVM in particular started out as an interpreter for SCUMM bytecode, emulating the original interpreter that ships with the games. It's as much as an emulator for those games as WinE is a Windows Emulator - that is, saying so will make some people upset but being upset does not make them right.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

I actually think most proprietary code should be open sourced eventually. There needs to be really good reason not to, and I don't see those applying to most code.

tinus_hn 3y ago
You’ve got some pretty strong demands for services you require others to deliver. What is your contribution?
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  The only "demand" I have is that software products be released as open source instead of just silently dropped out of support and forgotten about. I'm not saying people should be forced to maintain code forever or something. Release the code, let whoever still needs it fork it and maintain it as they please. That way, everybody wins. The original authors don't have to maintain this legacy software forever, or harm their reputation by dumping it. And people don't lose access to things they depend on. Games and game servers are an excellent example of where this is an easy win win situation. I would contribute to keep legacy things I love working, but generally I'm not allowed to at the moment. But I have contributed in the past by buying the products...
  - tinus_hn 3y ago
    Remind me again how developers win by making their old games more accessible, just so people can play their old games for free instead of buying new games. Because that would be one of the wins in the win win situation you claim. In reality, if releasing code was no work, then at best it would be a neutral/win situation. But that’s not reality either, it is work to release code. So it’s a lose/win situation. They lose and you win. They aren’t going to make the effort you demand, just so they lose. In the real world people want something back for their effort and otherwise they are going to put that effort into something that will get them something in return. But it is pretty soothing to know that you would certainly contribute, if only it wasn’t so hard. I’m sure the other people that you demand contributions from don’t experience your hardships.