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I think on this issues it’s conservatives that make a solution untenable. Conservatives are going to be against giving out living space. So that kills any hous

by josho 3y ago

I think on this issues it’s conservatives that make a solution untenable. Conservatives are going to be against giving out living space. So that kills any housing first policies. The alternative has to be something that a politician can sponsor and be confident that in a few years when they are up for re-election that there won’t be any obvious fraud or abuse. Eg. If their policy is found to have housed a crack den then their political ambitions likely get killed. This has the consequence that checks and balances and overhead has to be put in place. So we get a solution that is less cost effective with worse outcomes. My wish is for government to come out and say we accept 10% fraud out of this program if we can house Y number of people. But yeh that won’t happen either because their political opponents will distort that 10% and say the government purposely threw that money away.

bluGill 3y ago
We are talking about California - the conservatives don't have power.
cscurmudgeon 3y ago
> My wish is for government to come out and say we accept 10% fraud out of this program if we can house Y number of people. But yeh that won’t happen either because their political opponents will distort that 10% and say the government purposely threw that money away. For that to happen, can we first quantify how much fraud is happening now?
splitstud 3y ago
[dead]
marcusverus 3y ago
California has a democrat governor, a democrat Lieutenant governor, a state senate that's 80% democrat and a state house that's 75% democrat, and democrat mayors in all major cities. Conservatives are not the problem.
- kristopolous 3y ago
  How is policy directed? I'm in Los Angeles and it's mostly by business and real estate interests. Republicans, like Rick Caruso, run as Democrats because that's how you get elected here. It's a meaningless label. They'll do culture war signaling like support for pride month to their Twitter feed but when it comes to actual policy, for instance, the "defunding" of the LAPD which just last month included 780 more police, a new helicopter ... https://knock-la.com/lapd-budget-2023-increase/ https://knock-la.com/lapd-budget-2023-increase/ an increase of $118,000,000, it's a different story. On homelessness, actual leftists advocate for strong regulation on housing costs, bans on speculation, criminalization of landlords who do illegal evictions, seizing of idle real estate for redistributive housing, things like that. You may disagree, but that's what the actual left position is. It's not buying new helicopters for the cops or giving them 100 million to do encampment sweeps where they throw away medication and wheelchairs and then classify it as "homeless abatement". The policy, in practice, is increased money for police, shelters without storage or mail services, encampment sweeps, and a blind eye to landlord and market forces. In a Venn diagram with most conservative approaches, it's a pretty significant crossover.
  - jeremyjh 3y ago
    There is only one party in the US: Business Money. There are two different culture war teams to keep everyone distracted from that fact.
    - kristopolous 3y ago
      I've long suspected with a bit of repackaging, many of the Republican voters could be sold on a pretty socialist platform and, counterintuitively, more of them than on the Democrat side. Morality, fiscal responsibility, small government, local control, you can paint policies like a city chartering its own bank, community banking, cooperative retail, housing trusts etc with the same brush. You can even package say, free college in terms of competition, industry, and nationalism. Call it something like "America winning" or "Competitive Edge" instead of "free college". Instead of being a student, you're "serving your county". It's an easy parlay. I'm surprised I don't see it more. I'm guessing the people attempting that gambit don't get the millions needed to run the campaigns.
fn-mote 3y ago
> Conservatives are going to be against giving out living space To play the devil's advocate to my sibling commentators: if you equate "conservative" politics and NIMBY politics, this claim could certainly hold some substance. (The argument: NIMBY = conservative in the sense that they oppose change.) Also, just off the cuff I'm going to bet the overhead/fraud rate is more like 50% than 10%. Basis: think of the overhead regular companies budget, about 30% of salary.
jjcon 3y ago
> I think on this issues it’s conservatives that make a solution untenable Uhhh it’s been a while since I lived in the states but isn’t homelessness much much worse in states dominated by liberals?
dbrueck 3y ago
> I think on this issues it’s conservatives that make a solution untenable. > Conservatives are going to be against giving out living space. So that kills any housing first policies. I'm trying to figure out the basis for your argument... surely you aren't suggesting that places like California want to do this but can't seem to overcome the conservative opposition in the state legislature, right? :) See also : https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr-edge-inpractice-092022.html https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr-edge-inpractice-0... (one of the most conservative states in the country has been trying different housing first strategies for nearly two decades)
Nifty3929 3y ago
Conservatives and Progressives alike (but not all of either) block new housing from being built. With no data to back it up, I suspect it's really older folks who don't want the housing to be built. And I think the psychology of it might be preserving things the way the are or used to be. I'd be interested to see some data that supports/refutes this speculation.

by josho 3y ago

bluGill 3y ago

We are talking about California - the conservatives don't have power.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago

> My wish is for government to come out and say we accept 10% fraud out of this program if we can house Y number of people. But yeh that won’t happen either because their political opponents will distort that 10% and say the government purposely threw that money away. For that to happen, can we first quantify how much fraud is happening now?

splitstud 3y ago

[dead]

marcusverus 3y ago

California has a democrat governor, a democrat Lieutenant governor, a state senate that's 80% democrat and a state house that's 75% democrat, and democrat mayors in all major cities. Conservatives are not the problem.

kristopolous 3y ago
How is policy directed? I'm in Los Angeles and it's mostly by business and real estate interests. Republicans, like Rick Caruso, run as Democrats because that's how you get elected here. It's a meaningless label. They'll do culture war signaling like support for pride month to their Twitter feed but when it comes to actual policy, for instance, the "defunding" of the LAPD which just last month included 780 more police, a new helicopter ... https://knock-la.com/lapd-budget-2023-increase/ https://knock-la.com/lapd-budget-2023-increase/ an increase of $118,000,000, it's a different story. On homelessness, actual leftists advocate for strong regulation on housing costs, bans on speculation, criminalization of landlords who do illegal evictions, seizing of idle real estate for redistributive housing, things like that. You may disagree, but that's what the actual left position is. It's not buying new helicopters for the cops or giving them 100 million to do encampment sweeps where they throw away medication and wheelchairs and then classify it as "homeless abatement". The policy, in practice, is increased money for police, shelters without storage or mail services, encampment sweeps, and a blind eye to landlord and market forces. In a Venn diagram with most conservative approaches, it's a pretty significant crossover.
- jeremyjh 3y ago
  There is only one party in the US: Business Money. There are two different culture war teams to keep everyone distracted from that fact.
  - kristopolous 3y ago
    I've long suspected with a bit of repackaging, many of the Republican voters could be sold on a pretty socialist platform and, counterintuitively, more of them than on the Democrat side. Morality, fiscal responsibility, small government, local control, you can paint policies like a city chartering its own bank, community banking, cooperative retail, housing trusts etc with the same brush. You can even package say, free college in terms of competition, industry, and nationalism. Call it something like "America winning" or "Competitive Edge" instead of "free college". Instead of being a student, you're "serving your county". It's an easy parlay. I'm surprised I don't see it more. I'm guessing the people attempting that gambit don't get the millions needed to run the campaigns.

fn-mote 3y ago

> Conservatives are going to be against giving out living space To play the devil's advocate to my sibling commentators: if you equate "conservative" politics and NIMBY politics, this claim could certainly hold some substance. (The argument: NIMBY = conservative in the sense that they oppose change.) Also, just off the cuff I'm going to bet the overhead/fraud rate is more like 50% than 10%. Basis: think of the overhead regular companies budget, about 30% of salary.

jjcon 3y ago

> I think on this issues it’s conservatives that make a solution untenable Uhhh it’s been a while since I lived in the states but isn’t homelessness much much worse in states dominated by liberals?

dbrueck 3y ago

> I think on this issues it’s conservatives that make a solution untenable. > Conservatives are going to be against giving out living space. So that kills any housing first policies. I'm trying to figure out the basis for your argument... surely you aren't suggesting that places like California want to do this but can't seem to overcome the conservative opposition in the state legislature, right? :) See also : https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr-edge-inpractice-092022.html https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr-edge-inpractice-0... (one of the most conservative states in the country has been trying different housing first strategies for nearly two decades)

Nifty3929 3y ago

Conservatives and Progressives alike (but not all of either) block new housing from being built. With no data to back it up, I suspect it's really older folks who don't want the housing to be built. And I think the psychology of it might be preserving things the way the are or used to be. I'd be interested to see some data that supports/refutes this speculation.