3 ms·
>But in 17 years time, we will need to increase copper production to 150% to 200% of its current value, ie go from 28M tons/year to ~50M tons/year. Demand elas
by scythe 3y ago
>But in 17 years time, we will need to increase copper production to 150% to 200% of its current value, ie go from 28M tons/year to ~50M tons/year.
Demand elasticity is a funny thing. Some applications, like turbines, really need copper. Others, like the wiring of a house, can in principle get away with aluminum just fine. Currently, houses are built with copper wiring because the thermal expansion of aluminum requires some additional engineering complexity to achieve fire safety. But it's hard to project copper 'needs' when we use so much of it out of 'convenience'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_building_wiring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_building_wiring
- ebruchez 3y agoMy house, from the 1970s, has 100% aluminum wiring. I bought special connectors to connect copper wires to aluminum wires for extra safety when I put new outlets and switches in, as there is a fire concern when the connections are not done properly.
- londons_explore 3y agoAluminium is crazy for wiring... You can wire up a whole house in aluminium, and it be fine for decades, and then suddenly catch fire. The cause is that over time, aluminium joints become higher and higher resistance, and get hotter and hotter till one day they fail. There is some special gunge stuff you can get to put in each joint which supposedly stops this happening. But personally I don't trust the gunge to keep working for the 100+ years the wiring might remain in use. Particularly if there is a water leak and the gunge is washed away - and then your 10 year timer starts ticking till a deadly fire.
- londons_explore 3y agoNotably, China seems to make use of aluminium wires which are copper plated. They're cheaper than pure copper, and the plating means they don't have the fire problem - since it is always the copper surface that makes contact in any joint. I don't know why we don't use them - they would make electrical jobs cheaper, and mean we can afford to upgrade in other ways - like for example having every circuit powerful enough for a dryer rather than needing a special dryer circuit.
- organsnyder 3y agoI'd be concerned about what happens when the wiring gets nicked up when the connections are being made. It seems like if we want to achieve the goal you mention, we could switch over to 240v like much of the rest of the world.
- ethbr0 3y agoI am not an electrician, but wouldn't all US wiring already be 240v-compatible (at currently rated amperages) if the connectors were upgraded? US residential has 240v at the home fuse box from the upstream 3-phase. But I imagine it'd require a big adjustment at the utility level if everyone started drawing from +120v & -120v, instead of the current balance around the neutral.
- organsnyder 3y agoI would think so, but I am also not an electrician. I'm guessing the biggest issues would be the chicken-and-egg problem of upgrading receptacles and devices, as well as the question of whether 240v is actually a prudent choice to begin with.
- briHass 3y agoYes, it's the amps that matter for wire gauge (at typical voltages). Regular 12/2 or 14/2 NM cable (Romex) is used for US 240v circuits all the time. The only requirement is to color the white wire at the ends black or red to signify that it is a hot conductor with reference to ground.
- quickthrowman 3y agoThe vast majority of US homes use NM cable (romex) which is rated for 600v. NEC 2020 edition, Article 334 Non-Metallic Sheathed Cable 334.104 Conductors. The 600-volt insulated power conductors shall be sizes 14 AWG through 2 AWG copper conductors or sizes 12 AWG through 2 AWG aluminum or copper-clad aluminum conductors.
- 3y ago
- egberts1 3y agoActually as one who lives in all aluminum wiring residential unit, that is true about a fire. but they can be caught early using a cheap $45 IR camera from E-Bay/Amazon. I caught one early and a retightened of a wirenut is all that is needed. But to go up to 2020 NEC code, you must replace all wirenuts with the purple Alumniconn lug strip. Purple wirenut is now not to code for permanent jobs; only temporary. For that, all future wiring jobs must be redone with Alumniconn lug strip and tightened to 15 lb/ft
- briHass 3y agoHave a recommendation for a decent, cheap IR camera? I really want a FLIR, but can't justify the price.
- egberts1 3y agoi bought this one for $48 but now I see that the price has increased. https://www.amazon.com/4%C2%B0F-752%C2%B0F-Accuracy-Infrared-Temperature-Detection/dp/B0BWZ1WFKM/ref=mp_s_a_1_46?crid=G21KCD9FQ1HY&keywords=ir+camera&qid=1685750708&sprefix=ir+camera%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-46 https://www.amazon.com/4%C2%B0F-752%C2%B0F-Accuracy-Infrared...
- egberts1 3y agoI prefer a standalone 32x32 resolution system and not the cheap (nor expensive) USB/smartphone because this is something that I want to use years later (and when the app stops upgrading). One is $48 https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256805363165906.html?spm=a2g0n.detail.1000014.19.10f91c78e6EhK4&gps-id=platformRecommendH5&scm=1007.40000.326746.0&scm_id=1007.40000.326746.0&scm-url=1007.40000.326746.0&pvid=9690313a-c3f6-4154-b942-8214cf353929&_t=gps-id:platformRecommendH5,scm-url:1007.40000.326746.0,pvid:9690313a-c3f6-4154-b942-8214cf353929,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238110%23312&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21113.75%2143.22%21%21%21%21%21%402101f04d16857503856461703e488d%2112000033498910142%21rec%21US%21&_universallink=1&m_page_id=1887e8d685fe98d16f118bd8a74e6844b3db2177ef https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256805363165906.html?spm=a2g0n...
- egberts1 3y ago$61 https://www.amazon.com/Thermographic-Components-Professional-Detection-Industrial/dp/B09LGRYC7B/ref=mp_s_a_1_40?crid=G21KCD9FQ1HY&keywords=ir+camera&qid=1685750615&sprefix=ir+camera%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-40 https://www.amazon.com/Thermographic-Components-Professional...