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It's already getting built out. The Salton Sea is being rebranded as 'Lithium Valley'. [0] [0]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lithium-extraction-california-elect

It's already getting built out. The Salton Sea is being rebranded as 'Lithium Valley'. [0] [0]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lithium-extraction-california-electric-vehicle-batteries-60-minutes-transcript-2023-05-07/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lithium-extraction-california-e...

sidewndr46 3y ago
is anyone extracting commercially significant volumes of minerals from the Salton Sea yet?
- whinenot 3y ago
  Looks like 2024, at the earliest.[0] The relative speed to production is largely due to the fact that they're just refining the waste stream from already established geothermal power plants. As the old saying goes, "one power plant's trash is another refiner's treasure". [0] https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2022/05/13/lithium-valley-look-major-players-near-salton-sea-seeking-billions-funding/9665978002/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2022/05/13/lithium-vall...
- hedora 3y ago
  I'm guessing that will never happen. This is not the first time people have proposed mining it. One problem is that, even without mining, it's on track to poising the air of something like 33% of the Los Angelos metropolitan area in the next few decades. So, anyone that touches it will now own that environmental disaster. This can, and should, be fixed by spending huge amounts of federal money on environmental remediation, and I can imagine using lithium revenues to offset it, but none of that will be politically easy.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    wouldn't it be way easier to just put some water in the Salton sea? Even saltwater would work.
    - CameronNemo 3y ago
      Seriously I have no idea why we don't just fill the sink with sea water. It would get less salty.
      - sidewndr46 3y ago
        I'm not sure if this comment is sarcasm or not? But it would get saltier as time goes on. Seawater goes in, water evaporates out. There is more salt at that point . But that is fine. Hypersaline lakes are everywhere. As long as they are kept wet it isn't a big deal.
        CameronNemo 3y ago
        The lake is currently more saline than seawater, so adding more seawater would dilute it. True, over time it would get saltier as the water in the seawater evaporates out. But then just add more seawater to dilute more haha...
pengaru 3y ago
Is lithium even the most problematic raw material the batteries need in high volume? I thought the actual problematic ingredient was in the anode/cathode, not the electrolyte, Cobalt rings a bell. Edit: "Lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe, we've got lithium pretty much everywhere" ... "you could get lithium from sea water" ... "it's called lithium ion but that's like the salt in the salad, do you like salt in your salad? sure, but it's not made of salt" - elon musk on jre #1609
- kccqzy 3y ago
  Cobalt isn't used any more in mass-market, cheap EVs. Carmakers have begun to switch to lithium iron phosphate rather than lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxides.
  - culi 3y ago
    Yes but this is more of a corner being cut. LFP batteries have lower energy densities and lower operating voltage. Also it's being spearheaded by only a handful of companies. Tesla and BYD alone account for 68% of LFP battery usage
    - kccqzy 3y ago
      That's not a corner being cut. I said it's being targeted at mass-market cheap EVs. It's just market differentiation. People who don't want to pay for "long range" EVs get cheaper batteries; what's wrong with that?
      - culi 3y ago
        Fair enough. My point is that it's still an untested technology. Tesla drivers are reporting stuff like as much as 10% less range due to these batteries
        m4rtink 3y ago
        Tha does not sound like a bad trade-off at all, actually. :)

sidewndr46 3y ago

is anyone extracting commercially significant volumes of minerals from the Salton Sea yet?

whinenot 3y ago
Looks like 2024, at the earliest.[0] The relative speed to production is largely due to the fact that they're just refining the waste stream from already established geothermal power plants. As the old saying goes, "one power plant's trash is another refiner's treasure". [0] https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2022/05/13/lithium-valley-look-major-players-near-salton-sea-seeking-billions-funding/9665978002/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/2022/05/13/lithium-vall...
hedora 3y ago
I'm guessing that will never happen. This is not the first time people have proposed mining it. One problem is that, even without mining, it's on track to poising the air of something like 33% of the Los Angelos metropolitan area in the next few decades. So, anyone that touches it will now own that environmental disaster. This can, and should, be fixed by spending huge amounts of federal money on environmental remediation, and I can imagine using lithium revenues to offset it, but none of that will be politically easy.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  wouldn't it be way easier to just put some water in the Salton sea? Even saltwater would work.
  - CameronNemo 3y ago
    Seriously I have no idea why we don't just fill the sink with sea water. It would get less salty.
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      I'm not sure if this comment is sarcasm or not? But it would get saltier as time goes on. Seawater goes in, water evaporates out. There is more salt at that point . But that is fine. Hypersaline lakes are everywhere. As long as they are kept wet it isn't a big deal.
      - CameronNemo 3y ago
        The lake is currently more saline than seawater, so adding more seawater would dilute it. True, over time it would get saltier as the water in the seawater evaporates out. But then just add more seawater to dilute more haha...

pengaru 3y ago

Is lithium even the most problematic raw material the batteries need in high volume? I thought the actual problematic ingredient was in the anode/cathode, not the electrolyte, Cobalt rings a bell. Edit: "Lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe, we've got lithium pretty much everywhere" ... "you could get lithium from sea water" ... "it's called lithium ion but that's like the salt in the salad, do you like salt in your salad? sure, but it's not made of salt" - elon musk on jre #1609

kccqzy 3y ago
Cobalt isn't used any more in mass-market, cheap EVs. Carmakers have begun to switch to lithium iron phosphate rather than lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxides.
- culi 3y ago
  Yes but this is more of a corner being cut. LFP batteries have lower energy densities and lower operating voltage. Also it's being spearheaded by only a handful of companies. Tesla and BYD alone account for 68% of LFP battery usage
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    That's not a corner being cut. I said it's being targeted at mass-market cheap EVs. It's just market differentiation. People who don't want to pay for "long range" EVs get cheaper batteries; what's wrong with that?
    - culi 3y ago
      Fair enough. My point is that it's still an untested technology. Tesla drivers are reporting stuff like as much as 10% less range due to these batteries
      - m4rtink 3y ago
        Tha does not sound like a bad trade-off at all, actually. :)