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Why is that amazing? Masking is a social phenomenon at this point. It's about showing other people what sort of person you are, not about the mask itself.

lisasays 3y ago
It may make you feel comfortable to believe that's why they mask. But (knowing many people who still mask, under varying circumstances) -- that's not why they mask.
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  Why do they mask then? It seems a little hard to psychologically disentangle what one does for social approval vs for other reasons. For example, maybe it feels emotionally uncomfortable to not mask. Is it because the subconscious is worried about disease, or because the subconscious is worried about social approval? Probably some of both, but if we removed one perhaps the external behavior would change, hard to tell. Also IME it seems to cluster with other appearance related traits (e.g. type of dress, mannerisms, etc).
  - lisasays 3y ago
    I think you're overthinking this, especially as to hidden psychological motivations. The primary reason some people still mask is very simple: For anyone who follows basic science, not what the crowd is doing -- N95 masks in enclosed / crowded situations are still a good idea, especially for those of a certain age. Many people continue to wear useless (or only marginally) useful masks, and in non-crowded situations (even way out in the open). Which of course ranges from silly to, at best, only marginally useful. However it seems safe to suppose that they're doing so primarily out of strictly rational concerns (however faulty their understanding of better masking practices may be). Some partially, or entirely out of fear (an understandable reaction, if they've experienced a heavy bout of Covid, or have seen its effects in others). Also, some may remember the temporary shortage of N95s, and still think they're being good, self-sacrificing citizens by wearing less effective (or even basically useless) masks. Or they just don't like wearing N95s because they're too constricting (meaning, "too effective"). However, that is at best a secondary factory, and not the main reason why they choose to mask in the first place. But to recap: For the vast majority of folks who mask, it's mostly out of a (perhaps flawed) sense of pragmatism -- not because they are superstitious idiots, or primarily motivated by some subconscious desire to make a social statement about "who they are".
    - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      "The basic science" says that masking protects other people if I am infected with a comparatively high viral load and I am prone to sneezing or coughing unprotected. The basic science tells me to stay home when that happens because I am not fit for public appearances. Normal people stay home when they're sick, they don't infect others, and the basic science takes care of that just fine. If crazy people want to follow "basic science" and mask up and go out in public while they're carrying an infectious viral load, then I guess we're in Japan or something. If "basic science" compels the general populace to mask up, even when we're uninfected, unexposed, vaccinated, and asymptomatic, then I feel sorry for basic science because it's jumped the shark.
      - lisasays 3y ago
        It also says that it does protect you from other people's loads, albeit imperfectly. However everyone is tired of masking now, and prefers to forget this.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        Phrasing
        NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        When masking was first being mandated, I watched a science-guy video as he demonstrated how to properly handle a mask, donning and doffing, shaping the nosepiece, disinfection for reusable masks, etc. Then I saw reality, where a medical professional would politely remove her mask to sneeze.
      - hn976827 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - jrockway 3y ago
      For me the best effect of masking was keeping my hands out of my mouth. I love chewing on those things, which have touched God Knows What disease sources. Put a mask on, no longer physically possible. 3 years without being sick. Who can complain.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > Why do they mask then? Disposable/cloth masks that do absolutely nothing to prevent the spread of an airborne disease like Covid do still work with diseases (like the Flu) with a droplet based spread. > CDC says seasonal flu cases hit record lows around the world https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cold-and-flu/cdc-says-seasonal-flu-cases-hit-record-lows-around-world-n1240333 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cold-and-flu/cdc-says-seasona... The problem was the cult of people claiming that a disposable/cloth mask could be effective against an airborne disease, and being exceptionally hateful to anyone who wouldn't go along with this view.
    - lisasays 3y ago
      Not "absolutely nothing", according to research I've seen. Just not very much.
      - GeekyBear 3y ago
        A disposable mask with open sides cannot possibly filter particles that small out of the air you breathe. However, it can catch the comparatively large droplets you produce when someone with the Flu coughs or sneezes. Which explains why global Flu cases (with a droplet based spread) fell to all time lows while Covid (fully airborne) continued to spread like wildfire.
        lisasays 3y ago
        A disposable mask with open sides cannot possibly filter particles that small out of the air you breathe. From basic physics -- of course it can. They don't work particularly well, but they do partly obstruct small droplet flow. In any case, there are easily findable studies about this asserting that even that crap-ola disposable masks have at least some measurable efficacy.
        GeekyBear 3y ago
        > From basic physics -- of course it can. How exactly does physics allow a disposable mask that completely lacks a barrier to entry on the sides filter the air? > In hospitals, the word “airborne” is associated with a rigid set of protective methods, including the use of N95 respirators by workers and negative pressure rooms for patients. These are resource-intensive and legally required. https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-confusion/ https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-conf... Medical professionals are not only required to use at least an n95 mask, they are required to keep it so tightly fitted to their face that unfiltered air cannot leak in through the sides. So tightly fitted that it digs into their skin. > Exhausted doctors and nurses post images of their bruised faces after long shifts wearing protective gear https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-health-care-bruised-faces-masks-ppe-hospitals-doctors-nurses-italy-new-york/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-health-care-bruised...
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    Given that the unmasked vastly outnumber the masked it's not for social approval. I still mask (N95) in places because I haven't been sick since 2019 and it makes me happy. There's very few people left who mask. The social pressure is very much to take off the mask.
    - pfannkuchen 3y ago
      Yeah, simply “social approval” isn’t the right way to put it. What I mean is more nuanced - a feeling of “doing the right thing” and demonstrating that one is “doing the right thing”, as conditioned by one’s own social circle.
      - lisasays 3y ago
        Surely those drivers exist. They just don't seem to be the primary factor, for most folks.
    - hn976827 3y ago
      I went by car through town today, own car, masked up since my gf was also in my car (also masked up), while she has a cold. The looks we got for this were ridiculous. We've isolated that way many times bow when one of us had a cold and it's working wonders and gives us a chance to go to places together despite one having a cold.
- burnished 3y ago
  Some people do. Around me it felt like it was a very quick way to signal that you weren't a fucking crazy person at the start of the pandemic, and then it became political (jfc), and kept on being a social signal. If I had to guess though I'd say most people mask up out of pragmatism, its kind of insane that our previous practice was to just pretend we weren't sick hard enough that we stopped being infectious.
myko 3y ago
I don't think this is true. Prior to COVID many societies wore masks when sick, and a lot of folks' eyes were opened to the usefulness of doing so during the pandemic. I plan on wearing my n95 out and about when under the weather now, even though I don't generally wear one now that vaccines are readily available. And there are multitude of folks undergoing treatments that inhibit their immune system, where masking is especially important. That said, people should stay away from cloth masks or surgical masks and use n95s/respirators.
pookha 3y ago
I'll never forget the hate I got for letting my kids enjoy themselves at a playground OUTSIDE without those fucking nutty cloth masks...One thing 80's\90's punk-rock taught me was how to stand out in public. Served my kids emotional and physical development well during that hysteria.
majormajor 3y ago
Is this a thing in red states and areas? Like masking as a "fuck you I'm different?" signal? Because around me in super-liberal-coastal-land practically nobody masks, and the ones I know personally who sometimes do have underlying reasons to be more cautious (e.g. relatives undergoing nasty cancer treatments and such that they don't want to spread anything to). It's been like 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 people at the gym I go to, for instance, this year. Or look at the crowds in the recent NBA playoff games.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  It's the opposite in red states. People harass strangers in public for wearing masks. Same vibe as the maskers in blue states. It's the never-maskers vs. the ever-maskers.
  - vkou 3y ago
    It's been almost two years since I've started regularly going places in a 'lib' town, and I've yet to see any of the thousands of maskless people around me get harassed. Just because there's like five videos of it happening back in 2021 on r/publicfreakouts doesn't mean it's a normal occurrence.
  - majormajor 3y ago
    What "maskers in blue states"? I hardly see anyone in a mask, let alone harassing people not in a mask. That was my question! Where is this happening? Cause I'm really having a hard time reconciling people's random online claims with anything I've seen while out and about daily near me... Is there just an Extremely Online segment of the public that keeps repeating 2020's arguments without actually getting out much to see that basically everyone else has adapted as case counts have died down and people have gotten vaccinated?
    - pellucidar 3y ago
      Are you not in a city? I still see people masking all the time, though it’s never a lot of them unless the setting still requires masking. Most folk dance events I would otherwise be attending still require masks, and often N95s. There’s much less lingering masking and vaccine requirements in the suburbs, though.
hn976827 3y ago
[flagged]

lisasays 3y ago

It may make you feel comfortable to believe that's why they mask. But (knowing many people who still mask, under varying circumstances) -- that's not why they mask.

pfannkuchen 3y ago
Why do they mask then? It seems a little hard to psychologically disentangle what one does for social approval vs for other reasons. For example, maybe it feels emotionally uncomfortable to not mask. Is it because the subconscious is worried about disease, or because the subconscious is worried about social approval? Probably some of both, but if we removed one perhaps the external behavior would change, hard to tell. Also IME it seems to cluster with other appearance related traits (e.g. type of dress, mannerisms, etc).
- lisasays 3y ago
  I think you're overthinking this, especially as to hidden psychological motivations. The primary reason some people still mask is very simple: For anyone who follows basic science, not what the crowd is doing -- N95 masks in enclosed / crowded situations are still a good idea, especially for those of a certain age. Many people continue to wear useless (or only marginally) useful masks, and in non-crowded situations (even way out in the open). Which of course ranges from silly to, at best, only marginally useful. However it seems safe to suppose that they're doing so primarily out of strictly rational concerns (however faulty their understanding of better masking practices may be). Some partially, or entirely out of fear (an understandable reaction, if they've experienced a heavy bout of Covid, or have seen its effects in others). Also, some may remember the temporary shortage of N95s, and still think they're being good, self-sacrificing citizens by wearing less effective (or even basically useless) masks. Or they just don't like wearing N95s because they're too constricting (meaning, "too effective"). However, that is at best a secondary factory, and not the main reason why they choose to mask in the first place. But to recap: For the vast majority of folks who mask, it's mostly out of a (perhaps flawed) sense of pragmatism -- not because they are superstitious idiots, or primarily motivated by some subconscious desire to make a social statement about "who they are".
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    "The basic science" says that masking protects other people if I am infected with a comparatively high viral load and I am prone to sneezing or coughing unprotected. The basic science tells me to stay home when that happens because I am not fit for public appearances. Normal people stay home when they're sick, they don't infect others, and the basic science takes care of that just fine. If crazy people want to follow "basic science" and mask up and go out in public while they're carrying an infectious viral load, then I guess we're in Japan or something. If "basic science" compels the general populace to mask up, even when we're uninfected, unexposed, vaccinated, and asymptomatic, then I feel sorry for basic science because it's jumped the shark.
    - lisasays 3y ago
      It also says that it does protect you from other people's loads, albeit imperfectly. However everyone is tired of masking now, and prefers to forget this.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        Phrasing
      - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        When masking was first being mandated, I watched a science-guy video as he demonstrated how to properly handle a mask, donning and doffing, shaping the nosepiece, disinfection for reusable masks, etc. Then I saw reality, where a medical professional would politely remove her mask to sneeze.
    - hn976827 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - jrockway 3y ago
    For me the best effect of masking was keeping my hands out of my mouth. I love chewing on those things, which have touched God Knows What disease sources. Put a mask on, no longer physically possible. 3 years without being sick. Who can complain.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > Why do they mask then? Disposable/cloth masks that do absolutely nothing to prevent the spread of an airborne disease like Covid do still work with diseases (like the Flu) with a droplet based spread. > CDC says seasonal flu cases hit record lows around the world https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cold-and-flu/cdc-says-seasonal-flu-cases-hit-record-lows-around-world-n1240333 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cold-and-flu/cdc-says-seasona... The problem was the cult of people claiming that a disposable/cloth mask could be effective against an airborne disease, and being exceptionally hateful to anyone who wouldn't go along with this view.
  - lisasays 3y ago
    Not "absolutely nothing", according to research I've seen. Just not very much.
    - GeekyBear 3y ago
      A disposable mask with open sides cannot possibly filter particles that small out of the air you breathe. However, it can catch the comparatively large droplets you produce when someone with the Flu coughs or sneezes. Which explains why global Flu cases (with a droplet based spread) fell to all time lows while Covid (fully airborne) continued to spread like wildfire.
      - lisasays 3y ago
        A disposable mask with open sides cannot possibly filter particles that small out of the air you breathe. From basic physics -- of course it can. They don't work particularly well, but they do partly obstruct small droplet flow. In any case, there are easily findable studies about this asserting that even that crap-ola disposable masks have at least some measurable efficacy.
        GeekyBear 3y ago
        > From basic physics -- of course it can. How exactly does physics allow a disposable mask that completely lacks a barrier to entry on the sides filter the air? > In hospitals, the word “airborne” is associated with a rigid set of protective methods, including the use of N95 respirators by workers and negative pressure rooms for patients. These are resource-intensive and legally required. https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-confusion/ https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-conf... Medical professionals are not only required to use at least an n95 mask, they are required to keep it so tightly fitted to their face that unfiltered air cannot leak in through the sides. So tightly fitted that it digs into their skin. > Exhausted doctors and nurses post images of their bruised faces after long shifts wearing protective gear https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-health-care-bruised-faces-masks-ppe-hospitals-doctors-nurses-italy-new-york/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-health-care-bruised...
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  Given that the unmasked vastly outnumber the masked it's not for social approval. I still mask (N95) in places because I haven't been sick since 2019 and it makes me happy. There's very few people left who mask. The social pressure is very much to take off the mask.
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    Yeah, simply “social approval” isn’t the right way to put it. What I mean is more nuanced - a feeling of “doing the right thing” and demonstrating that one is “doing the right thing”, as conditioned by one’s own social circle.
    - lisasays 3y ago
      Surely those drivers exist. They just don't seem to be the primary factor, for most folks.
  - hn976827 3y ago
    I went by car through town today, own car, masked up since my gf was also in my car (also masked up), while she has a cold. The looks we got for this were ridiculous. We've isolated that way many times bow when one of us had a cold and it's working wonders and gives us a chance to go to places together despite one having a cold.
burnished 3y ago
Some people do. Around me it felt like it was a very quick way to signal that you weren't a fucking crazy person at the start of the pandemic, and then it became political (jfc), and kept on being a social signal. If I had to guess though I'd say most people mask up out of pragmatism, its kind of insane that our previous practice was to just pretend we weren't sick hard enough that we stopped being infectious.

myko 3y ago

I don't think this is true. Prior to COVID many societies wore masks when sick, and a lot of folks' eyes were opened to the usefulness of doing so during the pandemic. I plan on wearing my n95 out and about when under the weather now, even though I don't generally wear one now that vaccines are readily available. And there are multitude of folks undergoing treatments that inhibit their immune system, where masking is especially important. That said, people should stay away from cloth masks or surgical masks and use n95s/respirators.

pookha 3y ago

I'll never forget the hate I got for letting my kids enjoy themselves at a playground OUTSIDE without those fucking nutty cloth masks...One thing 80's\90's punk-rock taught me was how to stand out in public. Served my kids emotional and physical development well during that hysteria.

majormajor 3y ago

Is this a thing in red states and areas? Like masking as a "fuck you I'm different?" signal? Because around me in super-liberal-coastal-land practically nobody masks, and the ones I know personally who sometimes do have underlying reasons to be more cautious (e.g. relatives undergoing nasty cancer treatments and such that they don't want to spread anything to). It's been like 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 people at the gym I go to, for instance, this year. Or look at the crowds in the recent NBA playoff games.

pessimizer 3y ago
It's the opposite in red states. People harass strangers in public for wearing masks. Same vibe as the maskers in blue states. It's the never-maskers vs. the ever-maskers.
- vkou 3y ago
  It's been almost two years since I've started regularly going places in a 'lib' town, and I've yet to see any of the thousands of maskless people around me get harassed. Just because there's like five videos of it happening back in 2021 on r/publicfreakouts doesn't mean it's a normal occurrence.
- majormajor 3y ago
  What "maskers in blue states"? I hardly see anyone in a mask, let alone harassing people not in a mask. That was my question! Where is this happening? Cause I'm really having a hard time reconciling people's random online claims with anything I've seen while out and about daily near me... Is there just an Extremely Online segment of the public that keeps repeating 2020's arguments without actually getting out much to see that basically everyone else has adapted as case counts have died down and people have gotten vaccinated?
  - pellucidar 3y ago
    Are you not in a city? I still see people masking all the time, though it’s never a lot of them unless the setting still requires masking. Most folk dance events I would otherwise be attending still require masks, and often N95s. There’s much less lingering masking and vaccine requirements in the suburbs, though.

hn976827 3y ago

[flagged]