4 ms·

Not sure I agree. Local journalism is a social good. How else will you find out what your city council is up to? It's not like that's reported on CNN or Fox. A

Not sure I agree. Local journalism is a social good. How else will you find out what your city council is up to? It's not like that's reported on CNN or Fox. And if there are no journalists asking questions, how will you know they've been selling permits to their cousin developer for cents on the dollar while jacking up your taxes?

pclmulqdq 3y ago
Go to the meetings or talk to people in town or follow your neighbors who care on Twitter/Facebook? If you really care what happens at your city council, and you live in a city of less than 1 million people, you can generally meet all of them and know what's happening. Cities greater than 1 million often support a regional-level paper which also covers city news.
- NeuNeurosis 3y ago
  So everyone in the city of less than a 1 million should go? What about the meag cities? How are people supposed to have time, energy or resources to achieve that? The news has always been about democratizing information that impacts civic life, hence why a "free press" was written in the constitution. Its a civic service that needs supported and the current model of incentives no longer supports adequately. There are no easy answers to address the dying of newspapers but saying that people should just go to the meetings is not an answer.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    Presumably if more than the 30 people who show up care about the city council, then there will be someone who reports about it and writes something up, maybe like a substack, about it. Maybe they will call it something pretentious like "The $city Times" or "The $city Chronicle" and combine that newsletter with other topics of local interest. Maybe they will innovate a physical delivery format, too, that delivers the news on paper. Then they can really charge people for it. This is literally all just a question of supply and demand. The only people who care show up, and the rest wouldn't even spend $2 on a local newspaper. Also, you don't have to go to the meeting to know what happened there: all of these councils and committees produce minutes that are accessible from your city's website. I bet out of that city of 1 million, only 2x as many people read the minutes of the city council (which are almost always public) as go to the meeting. The production of those minutes is a public service.
    - text0404 3y ago
      this is just local journalism, except from some random blogger and not trained journalists.
      - pclmulqdq 3y ago
        Journalists didn't have a college training program until about 50 years ago. This used to just be "journalism."
  - throwaway2203 3y ago
    Yeah I used to ardently read the newspaper for the local suburb I was living in a few years ago and felt super connected and informed about issues (which meant I was less confused about all the names on the ballot come election time). Then I moved to a suburb which didn't have that newspaper and now I have no idea about anything nor are there any avenues for me to learn. And I have kids, so no, I'm not going to all those meetings.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
It is a social good that nobody cares enough about to pay for it themselves.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Yes, that's how it usually goes with social goods. That's why many of them are government functions rather than a private businesses. I'm not sure that local news is something I want as a government function, though...
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Exactly. And we rarely use regulation to force unwilling parties to produce or pay for them. This is like making a regulation saying that public parks are good, so restaurants have to build parks.
    - text0404 3y ago
      you don't need a metaphor here. the world's largest communications platform is using content generated by journalism organizations to make money, and those orgs are now asking for a piece of it. it's that simple.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Yes, and it is in no way the responsibility of the communication platforms to ensure journalist are profitable. Furthermore, those communications platforms should be able to say "No" if journalists demand payment for incoming traffic to their articles.
        text0404 3y ago
        > Yes, and it is in no way the responsibility of the communication platforms to ensure journalist are profitable. they aren't. this is akin to licensing content.
jart 3y ago
Journalists can't report on what local city governments are actually up to, because if they did, they'd be sued into oblivion.

pclmulqdq 3y ago

Go to the meetings or talk to people in town or follow your neighbors who care on Twitter/Facebook? If you really care what happens at your city council, and you live in a city of less than 1 million people, you can generally meet all of them and know what's happening. Cities greater than 1 million often support a regional-level paper which also covers city news.

NeuNeurosis 3y ago
So everyone in the city of less than a 1 million should go? What about the meag cities? How are people supposed to have time, energy or resources to achieve that? The news has always been about democratizing information that impacts civic life, hence why a "free press" was written in the constitution. Its a civic service that needs supported and the current model of incentives no longer supports adequately. There are no easy answers to address the dying of newspapers but saying that people should just go to the meetings is not an answer.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  Presumably if more than the 30 people who show up care about the city council, then there will be someone who reports about it and writes something up, maybe like a substack, about it. Maybe they will call it something pretentious like "The $city Times" or "The $city Chronicle" and combine that newsletter with other topics of local interest. Maybe they will innovate a physical delivery format, too, that delivers the news on paper. Then they can really charge people for it. This is literally all just a question of supply and demand. The only people who care show up, and the rest wouldn't even spend $2 on a local newspaper. Also, you don't have to go to the meeting to know what happened there: all of these councils and committees produce minutes that are accessible from your city's website. I bet out of that city of 1 million, only 2x as many people read the minutes of the city council (which are almost always public) as go to the meeting. The production of those minutes is a public service.
  - text0404 3y ago
    this is just local journalism, except from some random blogger and not trained journalists.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      Journalists didn't have a college training program until about 50 years ago. This used to just be "journalism."
- throwaway2203 3y ago
  Yeah I used to ardently read the newspaper for the local suburb I was living in a few years ago and felt super connected and informed about issues (which meant I was less confused about all the names on the ballot come election time). Then I moved to a suburb which didn't have that newspaper and now I have no idea about anything nor are there any avenues for me to learn. And I have kids, so no, I'm not going to all those meetings.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

It is a social good that nobody cares enough about to pay for it themselves.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Yes, that's how it usually goes with social goods. That's why many of them are government functions rather than a private businesses. I'm not sure that local news is something I want as a government function, though...
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Exactly. And we rarely use regulation to force unwilling parties to produce or pay for them. This is like making a regulation saying that public parks are good, so restaurants have to build parks.
  - text0404 3y ago
    you don't need a metaphor here. the world's largest communications platform is using content generated by journalism organizations to make money, and those orgs are now asking for a piece of it. it's that simple.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      Yes, and it is in no way the responsibility of the communication platforms to ensure journalist are profitable. Furthermore, those communications platforms should be able to say "No" if journalists demand payment for incoming traffic to their articles.
      - text0404 3y ago
        > Yes, and it is in no way the responsibility of the communication platforms to ensure journalist are profitable. they aren't. this is akin to licensing content.

jart 3y ago

Journalists can't report on what local city governments are actually up to, because if they did, they'd be sued into oblivion.