4 ms·

well, quine program doesn't do anything by itself too, you need computer and electricity for it to work

enkid 3y ago
There's a definitional problem here. Would a book with instructions for how to order additional copies be a quine? What's the difference? I don't know exactly.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  I guess the right question to ask about DNA is, does it contain all the instructions required to produce a copy of the DNA itself? DNA translation involves a bunch of RNA, sure. But DNA copying is mostly done by DNA polymerases, which are typical peptide based proteins encoded in the DNA itself, right? So in a real sense, the DNA contains the blueprint for the machinery to copy the DNA itself, but not the instructions for building that machine from the blueprint, the same way a software quine doesn't necessarily include the source code for a compiler. Definitely a definitional problem, but that's my shot at resolving it a bit. Then again, DNA polymerase is not perfect, and DNA is not immune to single nucleotide changes having a real effect, so it's only a quine in the "spherical cow" way of looking at it anyway. But it's certainly the most "quinish" thing in nature that I can think of.
  - enkid 3y ago
    I just don't think it's accurate to say DNA has instructions in the same way a computer does. It's more like a recipe for a chemical reaction. If we expand the definition of a quine away from being self reproducing code and to self reproducing chemical reaction, it seems like things like crystalization or fire could be considered a quine.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
      I actually like that. But I may have been a bit unclear about my mapping of computer and biology terminology to this question. I tend to think of a computer programs as being mathematical machines, and proteins as being molecular/chemical machines. Motor proteins "walking" along microtubules is the most vivid example of this. I'm sort of torn between both worlds here, honestly. I like both perspectives. Viruses especially have a very quinish quality to them in that they're stripped down to just enough stuff to get a host cell to make more viruses.
      - enkid 3y ago
        I like the virus as quine analogy much better than generic DNA as a quine, personally. Seems much more meaningful.

There's a definitional problem here. Would a book with instructions for how to order additional copies be a quine? What's the difference? I don't know exactly.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
I guess the right question to ask about DNA is, does it contain all the instructions required to produce a copy of the DNA itself? DNA translation involves a bunch of RNA, sure. But DNA copying is mostly done by DNA polymerases, which are typical peptide based proteins encoded in the DNA itself, right? So in a real sense, the DNA contains the blueprint for the machinery to copy the DNA itself, but not the instructions for building that machine from the blueprint, the same way a software quine doesn't necessarily include the source code for a compiler. Definitely a definitional problem, but that's my shot at resolving it a bit. Then again, DNA polymerase is not perfect, and DNA is not immune to single nucleotide changes having a real effect, so it's only a quine in the "spherical cow" way of looking at it anyway. But it's certainly the most "quinish" thing in nature that I can think of.
- enkid 3y ago
  I just don't think it's accurate to say DNA has instructions in the same way a computer does. It's more like a recipe for a chemical reaction. If we expand the definition of a quine away from being self reproducing code and to self reproducing chemical reaction, it seems like things like crystalization or fire could be considered a quine.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    I actually like that. But I may have been a bit unclear about my mapping of computer and biology terminology to this question. I tend to think of a computer programs as being mathematical machines, and proteins as being molecular/chemical machines. Motor proteins "walking" along microtubules is the most vivid example of this. I'm sort of torn between both worlds here, honestly. I like both perspectives. Viruses especially have a very quinish quality to them in that they're stripped down to just enough stuff to get a host cell to make more viruses.
    - enkid 3y ago
      I like the virus as quine analogy much better than generic DNA as a quine, personally. Seems much more meaningful.