7 ms·

Only Siths deal in absolutes. Among that list, NATO is by far the preferred option.

ben_w 3y ago
I'm not even sure which SCO is under discussion here, the unix one, Pakistan's "Special Communications Organization", the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, or if Scotland is up to something surprising, or if it's one of several "State Controller's Office" and "Special Counsel's Office" in the USA…
f6v 3y ago
I mean, unless you live in Middle East and one day they say you have WMD and they destroy your whole country. If you live in the EU or the US - then yes.
- agentgumshoe 3y ago
  Or you live in Russia and you thought you had a deal that NATO wouldn't encroach further on your border... It was a trick question, none of them are good.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Soviet Union asked to join NATO but was rejected, and the post-Soviet Russian Federation started on the path to joining back in the day. It's not NATO's fault that all the small countries around Russia are so scared of Russian forces that they all ask to join a mutual defence pact.
    - f6v 3y ago
      Russia wanting to join NATO is an anecdote.
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    Has NATO crossed any Russian border? Now nearing borders appears motivated more by Russia's bullying of its neighbors than any desire within NATO to expand. Maybe you're forgetting the protection treaty Russia signed to respect Ukraine's borders in exchange for USSR nukes.
    - f6v 3y ago
      > Has NATO crossed any Russian border? Does NATO even have a border with the counties member states invaded in the past three or so decades? Except Yugoslavia.
  - Veen 3y ago
    For your statement to make sense, Russia's borders would have to start at Ukraine's borders, which they do not.
  - lexek 3y ago
    Unlike you, I actually lived in Russia and I can tell with 100% certainty that it's a bs narrative that was used to build up Putin support based on confrontation with the "west".
    - agentgumshoe 3y ago
      So no agreements had previously been made then? https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017... I mean, I'm not supporting Russia's actions here, I'm saying the US (mainly) are just a bad an actor. They're essentially fighting a war with Russia (as their warmongers and military complex love to tell their shareholders about), Ukraine is just the pawn in the middle. I should have said 'towards' the border, not 'on.' My bad.
      - trololo01001 3y ago
        You are twisting the history. It was russia that attacked Ukraine in 2014 and occupied Crimea and half of Donetsk and Luhansk regions without any slightest provocation from Ukraine side. 2022 invasion is merely an episode in this war that goes for 9 years already.
        agentgumshoe 3y ago
        Without the slightest provocation huh? It would be nice if history was so black and white, wouldn't it? Ukraine was full of conflict between pro Russia and pro-EU well before that war. It was a complicated political environment. The invasion was not, and never is, justified, but let's not pretend Putin woke up one day, threw a dart at the dartboard and decided to invade that place.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Without the slightest provocation huh? This provoked Russia to invade how?. > It would be nice if history was so black and white, wouldn't it? Good thing that history is that black and white this time, this is as black and white as WW2. > The invasion was not, and never is, justified, but let's not pretend Putin woke up one day, threw a dart at the dartboard and decided to invade that place. Then what happened?.
- kmonsen 3y ago
  Which middle eastern country have NATO attacked?
  - pokepim 3y ago
    [dead]
  - wlesieutre 3y ago
    When the US invoked Article 5 after 9/11 and NATO invaded Afghanistan? https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm Not sure why the downvotes, this is literally the one and only time in NATO's history that Article 5 has been invoked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty#September_11_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty#Septembe...
    - George83728 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - f6v 3y ago
    Was there a NATO country that condemned Iraq invasion and imposed sanctions? Like banning McDonalds or UPS from doing business there? Most of them participated in the invasion one way or another, did they not?

I'm not even sure which SCO is under discussion here, the unix one, Pakistan's "Special Communications Organization", the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, or if Scotland is up to something surprising, or if it's one of several "State Controller's Office" and "Special Counsel's Office" in the USA…

f6v 3y ago

I mean, unless you live in Middle East and one day they say you have WMD and they destroy your whole country. If you live in the EU or the US - then yes.

agentgumshoe 3y ago
Or you live in Russia and you thought you had a deal that NATO wouldn't encroach further on your border... It was a trick question, none of them are good.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Soviet Union asked to join NATO but was rejected, and the post-Soviet Russian Federation started on the path to joining back in the day. It's not NATO's fault that all the small countries around Russia are so scared of Russian forces that they all ask to join a mutual defence pact.
  - f6v 3y ago
    Russia wanting to join NATO is an anecdote.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Has NATO crossed any Russian border? Now nearing borders appears motivated more by Russia's bullying of its neighbors than any desire within NATO to expand. Maybe you're forgetting the protection treaty Russia signed to respect Ukraine's borders in exchange for USSR nukes.
  - f6v 3y ago
    > Has NATO crossed any Russian border? Does NATO even have a border with the counties member states invaded in the past three or so decades? Except Yugoslavia.
- Veen 3y ago
  For your statement to make sense, Russia's borders would have to start at Ukraine's borders, which they do not.
- lexek 3y ago
  Unlike you, I actually lived in Russia and I can tell with 100% certainty that it's a bs narrative that was used to build up Putin support based on confrontation with the "west".
  - agentgumshoe 3y ago
    So no agreements had previously been made then? https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017... I mean, I'm not supporting Russia's actions here, I'm saying the US (mainly) are just a bad an actor. They're essentially fighting a war with Russia (as their warmongers and military complex love to tell their shareholders about), Ukraine is just the pawn in the middle. I should have said 'towards' the border, not 'on.' My bad.
    - trololo01001 3y ago
      You are twisting the history. It was russia that attacked Ukraine in 2014 and occupied Crimea and half of Donetsk and Luhansk regions without any slightest provocation from Ukraine side. 2022 invasion is merely an episode in this war that goes for 9 years already.
      - agentgumshoe 3y ago
        Without the slightest provocation huh? It would be nice if history was so black and white, wouldn't it? Ukraine was full of conflict between pro Russia and pro-EU well before that war. It was a complicated political environment. The invasion was not, and never is, justified, but let's not pretend Putin woke up one day, threw a dart at the dartboard and decided to invade that place.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Without the slightest provocation huh? This provoked Russia to invade how?. > It would be nice if history was so black and white, wouldn't it? Good thing that history is that black and white this time, this is as black and white as WW2. > The invasion was not, and never is, justified, but let's not pretend Putin woke up one day, threw a dart at the dartboard and decided to invade that place. Then what happened?.
kmonsen 3y ago
Which middle eastern country have NATO attacked?
- pokepim 3y ago
  [dead]
- wlesieutre 3y ago
  When the US invoked Article 5 after 9/11 and NATO invaded Afghanistan? https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm Not sure why the downvotes, this is literally the one and only time in NATO's history that Article 5 has been invoked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty#September_11_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty#Septembe...
  - George83728 3y ago
    [flagged]
- f6v 3y ago
  Was there a NATO country that condemned Iraq invasion and imposed sanctions? Like banning McDonalds or UPS from doing business there? Most of them participated in the invasion one way or another, did they not?