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How do you know for sure Yandex have protection of KGB? Is it your imagination and tendency to generalize russian political mess over big IT company? Or you kno

by ellynix 15y ago

How do you know for sure Yandex have protection of KGB? Is it your imagination and tendency to generalize russian political mess over big IT company? Or you know the facts (some Yandex insides, for example)?

hastur 15y ago
I can't know for sure, but if you know enough about the realities of that environment, you realize it's almost inevitable. Yandex is too tasty of a prey, and the security services are too powerful. [And I don't even know what you mean by "political mess". Street protests are very recent, while the security apparatus had its way pretty much since Putin took power. There is no mess, there's Putin for 12 years now (and his temporary stand-in, Medvedev).]
- ellynix 15y ago
  I apologize for using the wrong words. I meant situation around uncontrolled corruption in every aspect of russian citizen's life. Please, would you be so intelligent not to state things of which you are not sure? I'm russian and Yandex employee since 2008. There's a lot of smart people doing cool things because they like to. That's how Yandex doing it's business. Some of yandexers openly considered with government influence over big (mostly petroleum) companies, some prefer to keep their liberal views in silence. I'm sure many employees will quit Yandex as soon as it would be involved in cooperation with KGB.
  - hastur 15y ago
    I have absolutely no quarrel or suspicion of the average Yandex employee. I'm sure the company is filled with intelligent and well-intentioned people. But surely you must realize, you would have no idea if the security services had exerted some form of control over your company. If there is any control, and I'll insist there almost certainly is, there's a handful of people who know about it. And they won't tell you, because they are the very ones controlled and too concerned about their job, freedom or personal safety. So while obviously you can't say that Yandex _is_ FSB, I'd say you can pretty much assume that Twitter giving some privileged access to its data to Yandex is equivalent to giving privileged access to Russian intelligence. "Please, would you be so intelligent not to state things of which you are not sure?" - Well, if all we cared about were raw, 100% confirmed facts, we should abandon any form of discussion and just read news. For instance, what good is advice for entrepreneurs, when it's just conclusions and generalizations drawn from someone's narrow experience? No, the whole point of having a sensible discussion is to actually draw conclusions, challenge them and reassess. And as I said earlier, Yandex is too important and too influential in the tech sphere (from Russian perspective) not to draw interest from the security services. Considering their enormous power and impunity, I find it almost certain that they would use Yandex for their own benefit. With appropriate care and discretion, of course, otherwise it defies the purpose.
    - ellynix 15y ago
      >the whole point of having a sensible discussion is to actually draw conclusions, challenge them and reassess. You know, any form of conspiracy theory is a mind trap (because it doesn't satisfy falsifiability criterion) and allows to draw any conclusions that will suffice a need for endless discussion. Are there any arguments that will convince you not all russian companies are under KGB/mafia/Putin control?
      - hastur 15y ago
        Not all are, because not all of them are worth it. For most companies, the worst scenario is that a low-ranking officer will ask them for a little money for krysha. But Yandex is no small potatoes. Also, it's a mind trap to refuse to ponder the behavior of security services just because we have little information. It's their very nature not to let us know what they're doing, but scraps of information amass with time and you can connect the dots. Or perhaps you think that we should not try to think to much about these topics? I'm sure you've heard of Russian authorities cracking down on some NGOs under the pretext of fighting software piracy. Do you really think it was about illegal Windows and Office? Or perhaps someone didn't like what these organizations were doing, but had no legal arguments against these activities? See, I have no evidence in this case whatsoever, and yet I know with 99% certainty that the real reason had nothing to do with piracy. But call me a conspiracy theorist.
        ellynix 15y ago
        Oh, please! Don't assume I'm brainwashed zombie living in Orwell's 1984 and you're opening my eyes. I can tell more stories about crimes of russian authorities, corruption and general living in country where human rights are ignored more than you would want to listen. But still I insist on being reasonable, do not invent imaginary problems in place of the hundreds of real ones and do not paint everything in black-and-white. Anyway, it's good that you're so concerned about russian authorities crimes.

by ellynix 15y ago

hastur 15y ago

I can't know for sure, but if you know enough about the realities of that environment, you realize it's almost inevitable. Yandex is too tasty of a prey, and the security services are too powerful. [And I don't even know what you mean by "political mess". Street protests are very recent, while the security apparatus had its way pretty much since Putin took power. There is no mess, there's Putin for 12 years now (and his temporary stand-in, Medvedev).]

ellynix 15y ago
I apologize for using the wrong words. I meant situation around uncontrolled corruption in every aspect of russian citizen's life. Please, would you be so intelligent not to state things of which you are not sure? I'm russian and Yandex employee since 2008. There's a lot of smart people doing cool things because they like to. That's how Yandex doing it's business. Some of yandexers openly considered with government influence over big (mostly petroleum) companies, some prefer to keep their liberal views in silence. I'm sure many employees will quit Yandex as soon as it would be involved in cooperation with KGB.
- hastur 15y ago
  I have absolutely no quarrel or suspicion of the average Yandex employee. I'm sure the company is filled with intelligent and well-intentioned people. But surely you must realize, you would have no idea if the security services had exerted some form of control over your company. If there is any control, and I'll insist there almost certainly is, there's a handful of people who know about it. And they won't tell you, because they are the very ones controlled and too concerned about their job, freedom or personal safety. So while obviously you can't say that Yandex _is_ FSB, I'd say you can pretty much assume that Twitter giving some privileged access to its data to Yandex is equivalent to giving privileged access to Russian intelligence. "Please, would you be so intelligent not to state things of which you are not sure?" - Well, if all we cared about were raw, 100% confirmed facts, we should abandon any form of discussion and just read news. For instance, what good is advice for entrepreneurs, when it's just conclusions and generalizations drawn from someone's narrow experience? No, the whole point of having a sensible discussion is to actually draw conclusions, challenge them and reassess. And as I said earlier, Yandex is too important and too influential in the tech sphere (from Russian perspective) not to draw interest from the security services. Considering their enormous power and impunity, I find it almost certain that they would use Yandex for their own benefit. With appropriate care and discretion, of course, otherwise it defies the purpose.
  - ellynix 15y ago
    >the whole point of having a sensible discussion is to actually draw conclusions, challenge them and reassess. You know, any form of conspiracy theory is a mind trap (because it doesn't satisfy falsifiability criterion) and allows to draw any conclusions that will suffice a need for endless discussion. Are there any arguments that will convince you not all russian companies are under KGB/mafia/Putin control?
    - hastur 15y ago
      Not all are, because not all of them are worth it. For most companies, the worst scenario is that a low-ranking officer will ask them for a little money for krysha. But Yandex is no small potatoes. Also, it's a mind trap to refuse to ponder the behavior of security services just because we have little information. It's their very nature not to let us know what they're doing, but scraps of information amass with time and you can connect the dots. Or perhaps you think that we should not try to think to much about these topics? I'm sure you've heard of Russian authorities cracking down on some NGOs under the pretext of fighting software piracy. Do you really think it was about illegal Windows and Office? Or perhaps someone didn't like what these organizations were doing, but had no legal arguments against these activities? See, I have no evidence in this case whatsoever, and yet I know with 99% certainty that the real reason had nothing to do with piracy. But call me a conspiracy theorist.
      - ellynix 15y ago
        Oh, please! Don't assume I'm brainwashed zombie living in Orwell's 1984 and you're opening my eyes. I can tell more stories about crimes of russian authorities, corruption and general living in country where human rights are ignored more than you would want to listen. But still I insist on being reasonable, do not invent imaginary problems in place of the hundreds of real ones and do not paint everything in black-and-white. Anyway, it's good that you're so concerned about russian authorities crimes.