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Homelessness is a failure of the Federal government that nobody there is even willing to talk about. This can't be solved at a local or state level in a countr

Homelessness is a failure of the Federal government that nobody there is even willing to talk about. This can't be solved at a local or state level in a country with unrestricted freedom of movement.

atdrummond 3y ago
I don’t think the feds are to blame. SF and similar CA cities have set up a program that encourages people to move there because it makes being “homeless” an actual possible lifestyle choice. Even an enjoyable one.
- thrwawy74 3y ago
  Hmm. I wonder if you could say "if someone becomes homeless in your locality, your locality has failed them". And then rate localities/states by their net loss of citizens that have fallen "outside society". Then begin incentivizing communities to fix these problems. There's only so much a local community can do with limited funds, but while I'm sure the majority of homeless in California are Californian... I would love other states to take ownership of citizens they export/extrude. :s
  - atdrummond 3y ago
    I agree. From my research, Portugal’s drug assistance programmes for the homeless are quite effective. For those in more of a poverty trap situation, Finland has done quite a good job finding the right set of policies for their country to bring levels down so far that most Americans would consider them to have “solved” homelessness.[1] https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/finlands-zero-homeless-strategy-lessons-from-a-success-story/amp/ https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/finlands-zero-homeless-...
- devoutsalsa 3y ago
  Are you aware of this? Reagan’s Legacy: Homelessness in America https://shelterforce.org/2004/05/01/reagans-legacy-homelessness-in-america/ https://shelterforce.org/2004/05/01/reagans-legacy-homelessn...
  - atdrummond 3y ago
    Yes. States aren’t powerless to implement mental health requirements and programmes though. It is a cop-out to suggest that states and cities don’t use the full breadth of their legislative powers because the federal government made a bad policy decision over 4 decades ago.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - youreincorrect 3y ago
    Reagan hasn't been governor of California or president of the US for a long time.
    - ModernMech 3y ago
      That's why it's called a "legacy". It lingers after you've been gone.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        Democrats must be remarkably ineffective to have someone that long ago still disrupting them after decades of unquestioned control.
        ModernMech 3y ago
        Democrats are largely liberal capitalists. They don’t have solutions to this either.
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  The Feds may not be “to blame”. But it’s hard to see how individual states can solve this problem. Any program by any state that helps the homeless in a country where you legally cannot create state level borders (and with the homeless you can’t establish residency by definition) would immediately draw homeless people across the country, especially since the homeless strategy in many states is to pay for one way bus tickets to a different state, and quickly overwhelm and undermine what could otherwise have been a successful program. Any successful program must be funded and implemented at the Federal level.
- idontpost 3y ago
  [dead]
ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
Let me just quality a bit further: homelessness is a failure of the neoliberal ideology (land free markets/privatization never worked, from the enclosures [1] to modern times, see Georgism for a solution [2]) and further a failure of the metaphysics of meritocracy based in desert-people's belief "by the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground", which simply isn't the case today, and it certainly won't be the case in a few decades when all the jobs will be gone forever, hopefully. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
- latency-guy2 3y ago
  Homelessness has been on the downtrend for quite a few decades in the US. There is 0 countries in this world who have solved homelessness by the way. I don't think you're correct.
  - ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
    Not sure how much of a downtrend, seems rather stable [1]. There are also 0 countries that implement Georgist policies and most of the countries in the world are directly neoliberal or neoliberal-bent, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia [2], and friends included. Perhaps I am not correct, but what do you think will happen in a few years when we will have a 100 GB neural model able to drive any car in any environment, effectively obliterating 200+ million jobs worldwide? Fairly certain, if we keep the same policies and the same belief-system, homelessness will trend rather high. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/555795/estimated-number-of-homeless-people-in-the-us https://www.statista.com/statistics/555795/estimated-number-... [2] 2018, Abdullah Al-Beraidi, "The Trap of Neoliberalism for Gulf Cooperation Council Countries", https://online.ucpress.edu/caa/article-abstract/11/4/63/25792/The-Trap-of-Neoliberalism-for-GCC https://online.ucpress.edu/caa/article-abstract/11/4/63/2579... PDF: https://caus.org.lb/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/The-Trap-of-Neoliberalism-for-GCC-CountriesSalvaging-an-Economy-or-Drowning-a-Community.pdf https://caus.org.lb/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/The-Trap-of-N...
    - 3y ago
roenxi 3y ago
Why? Is it illegal to discriminate based on place of birth? It seems like it'd be politically palatable to allow places to run homeless programs that are only available to locals. There isn't a downside for anyone.
- user- 3y ago
  Is this a real question? How will you define a local? What happens if someone lives in a town for 10 years then loses their home. What if theyre not a local but they are a minor? Or if they are an immigrant?
  - roenxi 3y ago
    Quite serious. It isn't like free movement stops people from implementing a local plan against homelessness. > How will you define a local? What happens if someone lives in a town for 10 years then loses their home. What if theyre not a local but they are a minor? Or if they are an immigrant? I'm not sure what point you're wanting to make here, but yes. If a group of locals wants to solve homelessness in their area they will need to decide on answers to those questions. Frankly they aren't hard questions. Born in a geographic area or owned a home for 5+ years, yes, no, yes if they owned a home locally. How do define who gets to be a citizen for a federal response to homelessness? It faces exactly the same problems. America can't afford to provide welfare for all of Asia.
    - cool_dude85 3y ago
      Two issues. First, homeless people tend to be much less likely to have the wherewithal to prove residency, either due to substance problems, difficulty navigating bureaucracy, or just not having the money to chase down paperwork or a safe place to store it. So hurdles like "being local", essentially whatever it means, could prove to be a huge barrier to uptake of your programs. Second, "solving homelessness" for just one subset of homeless people may not actually provide the benefit you hope for. You might still have tent cities, RV encampments, people using drugs outdoors, etc. Now the people doing that are from just past city limits and entitled to no support.
gre 3y ago
Maybe China is on to something. Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l... 90% of families in China own their own home https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/
- trashface 3y ago
  I'd actually consider moving to a "ghost city" if the US built one, especially if the housing was more affordable. I only need a basic job to get by. Will never happen here though.
- RavlaAlvar 3y ago
  Sure. Common Chinese factory workers live in 6-12 people dormitory. Homeless people get evicted from the capital city. Major city have rule in place to prevent non local people buying property, Let’s do that.
zacharytelschow 3y ago
If it's a federal failure why are the homeless highly concentrated in certain areas?
- kube-system 3y ago
  People and resources are concentrated in certain areas https://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/
  - NotYourLawyer 3y ago
    Yes, because obviously Houston has just as big a problem as SF.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      Of course, not all cities experience homelessness at the same rate. However, Houston is in the top 25 cities for the total number of homelessness.
      - NotYourLawyer 3y ago
        Houston is the fourth biggest city in the country. If it’s only in the top 25 for some bad metric, that’s great news.
        kube-system 3y ago
        Yes, I agree. Despite Houston being one of the top cities in the US for homelessness, they have a slightly lower rate of homelessness than the US average. However, their homelessness rate is higher than the Texas average.
      - sshconnection 3y ago
        In sprawling cities like Houston you can also just not see that area of town. In a dense place like SF, it's harder to avoid.

Homelessness is a failure of the Federal government that nobody there is even willing to talk about. This can't be solved at a local or state level in a country with unrestricted freedom of movement.

atdrummond 3y ago

I don’t think the feds are to blame. SF and similar CA cities have set up a program that encourages people to move there because it makes being “homeless” an actual possible lifestyle choice. Even an enjoyable one.

thrwawy74 3y ago
Hmm. I wonder if you could say "if someone becomes homeless in your locality, your locality has failed them". And then rate localities/states by their net loss of citizens that have fallen "outside society". Then begin incentivizing communities to fix these problems. There's only so much a local community can do with limited funds, but while I'm sure the majority of homeless in California are Californian... I would love other states to take ownership of citizens they export/extrude. :s
- atdrummond 3y ago
  I agree. From my research, Portugal’s drug assistance programmes for the homeless are quite effective. For those in more of a poverty trap situation, Finland has done quite a good job finding the right set of policies for their country to bring levels down so far that most Americans would consider them to have “solved” homelessness.[1] https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/finlands-zero-homeless-strategy-lessons-from-a-success-story/amp/ https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/finlands-zero-homeless-...
devoutsalsa 3y ago
Are you aware of this? Reagan’s Legacy: Homelessness in America https://shelterforce.org/2004/05/01/reagans-legacy-homelessness-in-america/ https://shelterforce.org/2004/05/01/reagans-legacy-homelessn...
- atdrummond 3y ago
  Yes. States aren’t powerless to implement mental health requirements and programmes though. It is a cop-out to suggest that states and cities don’t use the full breadth of their legislative powers because the federal government made a bad policy decision over 4 decades ago.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- youreincorrect 3y ago
  Reagan hasn't been governor of California or president of the US for a long time.
  - ModernMech 3y ago
    That's why it's called a "legacy". It lingers after you've been gone.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Democrats must be remarkably ineffective to have someone that long ago still disrupting them after decades of unquestioned control.
      - ModernMech 3y ago
        Democrats are largely liberal capitalists. They don’t have solutions to this either.
rhaway84773 3y ago
The Feds may not be “to blame”. But it’s hard to see how individual states can solve this problem. Any program by any state that helps the homeless in a country where you legally cannot create state level borders (and with the homeless you can’t establish residency by definition) would immediately draw homeless people across the country, especially since the homeless strategy in many states is to pay for one way bus tickets to a different state, and quickly overwhelm and undermine what could otherwise have been a successful program. Any successful program must be funded and implemented at the Federal level.
idontpost 3y ago
[dead]

ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago

Let me just quality a bit further: homelessness is a failure of the neoliberal ideology (land free markets/privatization never worked, from the enclosures [1] to modern times, see Georgism for a solution [2]) and further a failure of the metaphysics of meritocracy based in desert-people's belief "by the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground", which simply isn't the case today, and it certainly won't be the case in a few decades when all the jobs will be gone forever, hopefully. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

latency-guy2 3y ago
Homelessness has been on the downtrend for quite a few decades in the US. There is 0 countries in this world who have solved homelessness by the way. I don't think you're correct.
- ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
  Not sure how much of a downtrend, seems rather stable [1]. There are also 0 countries that implement Georgist policies and most of the countries in the world are directly neoliberal or neoliberal-bent, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia [2], and friends included. Perhaps I am not correct, but what do you think will happen in a few years when we will have a 100 GB neural model able to drive any car in any environment, effectively obliterating 200+ million jobs worldwide? Fairly certain, if we keep the same policies and the same belief-system, homelessness will trend rather high. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/555795/estimated-number-of-homeless-people-in-the-us https://www.statista.com/statistics/555795/estimated-number-... [2] 2018, Abdullah Al-Beraidi, "The Trap of Neoliberalism for Gulf Cooperation Council Countries", https://online.ucpress.edu/caa/article-abstract/11/4/63/25792/The-Trap-of-Neoliberalism-for-GCC https://online.ucpress.edu/caa/article-abstract/11/4/63/2579... PDF: https://caus.org.lb/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/The-Trap-of-Neoliberalism-for-GCC-CountriesSalvaging-an-Economy-or-Drowning-a-Community.pdf https://caus.org.lb/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/The-Trap-of-N...
  - 3y ago

roenxi 3y ago

Why? Is it illegal to discriminate based on place of birth? It seems like it'd be politically palatable to allow places to run homeless programs that are only available to locals. There isn't a downside for anyone.

user- 3y ago
Is this a real question? How will you define a local? What happens if someone lives in a town for 10 years then loses their home. What if theyre not a local but they are a minor? Or if they are an immigrant?
- roenxi 3y ago
  Quite serious. It isn't like free movement stops people from implementing a local plan against homelessness. > How will you define a local? What happens if someone lives in a town for 10 years then loses their home. What if theyre not a local but they are a minor? Or if they are an immigrant? I'm not sure what point you're wanting to make here, but yes. If a group of locals wants to solve homelessness in their area they will need to decide on answers to those questions. Frankly they aren't hard questions. Born in a geographic area or owned a home for 5+ years, yes, no, yes if they owned a home locally. How do define who gets to be a citizen for a federal response to homelessness? It faces exactly the same problems. America can't afford to provide welfare for all of Asia.
  - cool_dude85 3y ago
    Two issues. First, homeless people tend to be much less likely to have the wherewithal to prove residency, either due to substance problems, difficulty navigating bureaucracy, or just not having the money to chase down paperwork or a safe place to store it. So hurdles like "being local", essentially whatever it means, could prove to be a huge barrier to uptake of your programs. Second, "solving homelessness" for just one subset of homeless people may not actually provide the benefit you hope for. You might still have tent cities, RV encampments, people using drugs outdoors, etc. Now the people doing that are from just past city limits and entitled to no support.

gre 3y ago

Maybe China is on to something. Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l... 90% of families in China own their own home https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546956/

trashface 3y ago
I'd actually consider moving to a "ghost city" if the US built one, especially if the housing was more affordable. I only need a basic job to get by. Will never happen here though.
RavlaAlvar 3y ago
Sure. Common Chinese factory workers live in 6-12 people dormitory. Homeless people get evicted from the capital city. Major city have rule in place to prevent non local people buying property, Let’s do that.

zacharytelschow 3y ago

If it's a federal failure why are the homeless highly concentrated in certain areas?

kube-system 3y ago
People and resources are concentrated in certain areas https://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago
  Yes, because obviously Houston has just as big a problem as SF.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Of course, not all cities experience homelessness at the same rate. However, Houston is in the top 25 cities for the total number of homelessness.
    - NotYourLawyer 3y ago
      Houston is the fourth biggest city in the country. If it’s only in the top 25 for some bad metric, that’s great news.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        Yes, I agree. Despite Houston being one of the top cities in the US for homelessness, they have a slightly lower rate of homelessness than the US average. However, their homelessness rate is higher than the Texas average.
    - sshconnection 3y ago
      In sprawling cities like Houston you can also just not see that area of town. In a dense place like SF, it's harder to avoid.