3 ms·

We don't have a definition of consciousness that allows you to determine whether a rock is conscious or not.

namaria 3y ago
Moot point, following Descartes definition you can only ascertain you own consciousness, you can't even determine if another person is conscious.
adastra22 3y ago
Sure, but consciousness as a phenomenon does exist. I know this with absolute certainty, because I'm conscious typing this right now.
- kukkeliskuu 3y ago
  How do you know this with absolute certainty?
  - adastra22 3y ago
    That I exist as a thinking, feeling, observing entity? That’s kinda self-evident, no?
    - joquarky 3y ago
      The trick with this is that most people do not question what "I" refers to in such a statement.
      - adastra22 3y ago
        I don't see how that is relevant? I exist as a conscious, thinking, feeling, perceiving entity. Y'all might be NPCs but I know I exist, whatever the hell that means. Nothing you can say will ever convince me otherwise: I have direct knowledge that I experience conscious awareness. Ergo, I have an existence proof that consciousness exists, because I myself am an example of it. Anyone arguing that consciousness doesn't exist is going to get a dry smirk from me and a sad shake of the head. I know otherwise. What "I" am in the larger sphere of things doesn't even enter into this.
        kukkeliskuu 3y ago
        If you have decided that nothing anybody says will convince you otherwise, then you are not approaching the issue with an open mind and that is not a very fruitful way to learn. At the root here is the very basic observation from psychology and neuroscience that we cannot trust our thinking of our memory about our experience. You don’t need to believe that observation. If you are open to learning, you can make experiments on yourself to convince yourself that this is the case. But if you are unwilling to openly approach the question whether all those scientists might have a point, of course there is nothing that can be done.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  It doesn't. No one in this thread has bothered to describe, even casually, what they think this "consciousness" is. It exists only in your not-very-impressive imaginations. If any of you were even slightly clever, you would have recognized that your arguments are entirely religious in nature, that only the terminology has been switched up (that only barely) so that you can pretend otherwise. Go. Look through the comments. The evidence you human things find sufficient for consciousness sum up to little more than your constant whiny, excitable assertions that it's a real phenomenon, and you really really exhibit it.
  - adastra22 3y ago
    Never have I ever been so obviously gaslit in my life.
  - GoblinSlayer 3y ago
    Consciousness is an ability to have subjective experience.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
      There are no subjective experiences, just bad software. Your bad meat software constantly creates illusions that you believe to be real because you're not really rational enough to question those. Of all the peculiar software qualities you might have appealed to as consciousness, you choose the one that's the most plainly defective? My memory confabulation begins just 480 milliseconds after the event occurred, therefor I have a transcendent soul! My sensory organs are so poorly adapted, NNs have to fabricate entire swaths of data just for me to navigate the physical world, therefor I have an ineffable mind that sets me apart from all other lumps of matter!
      - adastra22 3y ago
        > that you believe to be real Think about what you just said there.
      - GoblinSlayer 3y ago

Moot point, following Descartes definition you can only ascertain you own consciousness, you can't even determine if another person is conscious.

adastra22 3y ago

Sure, but consciousness as a phenomenon does exist. I know this with absolute certainty, because I'm conscious typing this right now.

kukkeliskuu 3y ago
How do you know this with absolute certainty?
- adastra22 3y ago
  That I exist as a thinking, feeling, observing entity? That’s kinda self-evident, no?
  - joquarky 3y ago
    The trick with this is that most people do not question what "I" refers to in such a statement.
    - adastra22 3y ago
      I don't see how that is relevant? I exist as a conscious, thinking, feeling, perceiving entity. Y'all might be NPCs but I know I exist, whatever the hell that means. Nothing you can say will ever convince me otherwise: I have direct knowledge that I experience conscious awareness. Ergo, I have an existence proof that consciousness exists, because I myself am an example of it. Anyone arguing that consciousness doesn't exist is going to get a dry smirk from me and a sad shake of the head. I know otherwise. What "I" am in the larger sphere of things doesn't even enter into this.
      - kukkeliskuu 3y ago
        If you have decided that nothing anybody says will convince you otherwise, then you are not approaching the issue with an open mind and that is not a very fruitful way to learn. At the root here is the very basic observation from psychology and neuroscience that we cannot trust our thinking of our memory about our experience. You don’t need to believe that observation. If you are open to learning, you can make experiments on yourself to convince yourself that this is the case. But if you are unwilling to openly approach the question whether all those scientists might have a point, of course there is nothing that can be done.
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
It doesn't. No one in this thread has bothered to describe, even casually, what they think this "consciousness" is. It exists only in your not-very-impressive imaginations. If any of you were even slightly clever, you would have recognized that your arguments are entirely religious in nature, that only the terminology has been switched up (that only barely) so that you can pretend otherwise. Go. Look through the comments. The evidence you human things find sufficient for consciousness sum up to little more than your constant whiny, excitable assertions that it's a real phenomenon, and you really really exhibit it.
- adastra22 3y ago
  Never have I ever been so obviously gaslit in my life.
- GoblinSlayer 3y ago
  Consciousness is an ability to have subjective experience.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    There are no subjective experiences, just bad software. Your bad meat software constantly creates illusions that you believe to be real because you're not really rational enough to question those. Of all the peculiar software qualities you might have appealed to as consciousness, you choose the one that's the most plainly defective? My memory confabulation begins just 480 milliseconds after the event occurred, therefor I have a transcendent soul! My sensory organs are so poorly adapted, NNs have to fabricate entire swaths of data just for me to navigate the physical world, therefor I have an ineffable mind that sets me apart from all other lumps of matter!
    - adastra22 3y ago
      > that you believe to be real Think about what you just said there.
    - GoblinSlayer 3y ago