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> Sure, not "out of the box" but not the way you mean. There was a design to be put in place, but no more than any other CMS... That's pretty much what I mean.

> Sure, not "out of the box" but not the way you mean. There was a design to be put in place, but no more than any other CMS... That's pretty much what I mean. Most CMS platforms on high traffic sites need caching, but not to the extent WordPress needs to be buffered. I've seen some ugly stuff that was solved very quickly by using a more robust CMS. I suspect you have too. There are advantages to it for a newsroom but not enough to make me ever consider reaching for it in 2023. > If your devs are being made to cry then you are doing it wrong? I disagree with this. If I make people use the wrong tool then I'm doing it wrong.

donohoe 3y ago
I was trying to indicate that most of the work is implementing a frontend design - as with any website. > Most CMS platforms on high traffic sites need caching, but not to the extent WordPress needs to be buffered I continue to disagree with you on the WP side. Setting up with a CDN was not difficult. First with Akamai and later moved to Fastly for the ESIs. No more effort required of any other CMS - thats not at WP specific. In terms of WP specific work that was required, again, not a big effort. Caching was not an issue for us on that side. We made use of Transients API here and there for some larger queries (curated homepage) but no big hurdles. > If I make people use the wrong tool then I'm doing it wrong I'll stick with my original meaning. The tool is fine if you know how to use it. I'm able to demonstrate that that WP is fine for several high-traffic sites. Some of which were getting ~30M unique visitors (not pageviews) a month without being on fire. Its very possible your editorial workflow requirements, or other site needs were very different from ours, and we did not need to contend with those pain points. We were fairly ruthless about what plugins we'd allow and they'd been mostly pre-vetted or semi supported by WP/Automattic.
- nkozyra 3y ago
  > I'm able to demonstrate that that WP is fine for several high-traffic sites. Some of which were getting ~30M unique visitors (not pageviews) a month without being on fire. So was I. But when I realized that commercial and even bespoke CMS' often blew WP out of the water I really changed my tune. And amazingly they ended up being cheaper, more performant and more secure. Can you make it work? Yes. Should you? Very tough question. I can't see too many cases where I would reach for it.
  - donohoe 3y ago
    I know many orgs dropping custom CMSs and proprietary ones and moving to WP :)
    - nkozyra 3y ago
      I've seen this, too (I think we've crossed circles before) Generally it's because there are few commercial CMS companies left and media orgs are not software development companies. So neither solution is ideal and most media companies operate in a 5-10 year loop of dissatisfaction and change.

donohoe 3y ago

I was trying to indicate that most of the work is implementing a frontend design - as with any website. > Most CMS platforms on high traffic sites need caching, but not to the extent WordPress needs to be buffered I continue to disagree with you on the WP side. Setting up with a CDN was not difficult. First with Akamai and later moved to Fastly for the ESIs. No more effort required of any other CMS - thats not at WP specific. In terms of WP specific work that was required, again, not a big effort. Caching was not an issue for us on that side. We made use of Transients API here and there for some larger queries (curated homepage) but no big hurdles. > If I make people use the wrong tool then I'm doing it wrong I'll stick with my original meaning. The tool is fine if you know how to use it. I'm able to demonstrate that that WP is fine for several high-traffic sites. Some of which were getting ~30M unique visitors (not pageviews) a month without being on fire. Its very possible your editorial workflow requirements, or other site needs were very different from ours, and we did not need to contend with those pain points. We were fairly ruthless about what plugins we'd allow and they'd been mostly pre-vetted or semi supported by WP/Automattic.

nkozyra 3y ago
> I'm able to demonstrate that that WP is fine for several high-traffic sites. Some of which were getting ~30M unique visitors (not pageviews) a month without being on fire. So was I. But when I realized that commercial and even bespoke CMS' often blew WP out of the water I really changed my tune. And amazingly they ended up being cheaper, more performant and more secure. Can you make it work? Yes. Should you? Very tough question. I can't see too many cases where I would reach for it.
- donohoe 3y ago
  I know many orgs dropping custom CMSs and proprietary ones and moving to WP :)
  - nkozyra 3y ago
    I've seen this, too (I think we've crossed circles before) Generally it's because there are few commercial CMS companies left and media orgs are not software development companies. So neither solution is ideal and most media companies operate in a 5-10 year loop of dissatisfaction and change.