4 ms·

During the pandemic response weren't the Australians imprisoning those who refused to get vaccinated or broke curfew laws and similar? Is the idea here that dra

During the pandemic response weren't the Australians imprisoning those who refused to get vaccinated or broke curfew laws and similar? Is the idea here that draconian measures were justified and the US should have implemented similar camps as well?

smt88 3y ago
You are conflating "healthcare system" and "emergency measures taken by public health agencies during a pandemic".
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  The gp was specifically talking about Australia's pandemic response, not sure what I conflated there
  - Jedd 3y ago
    I apologise for any ambiguity there - I was, as smt88 suggests, mainly focusing on the healthcare system comparisons between basically every other western / democratic mildly advanced society, and the USA. My greater point was that during COVID19 we had the unique situation of a health crisis that presented almost equally to everyone on the planet, so deltas in responses were very obvious, and depending where you were and what your politics were, very useful for finger-pointing (of the 'at least we're doing better than them' or 'we should do what they're doing' varieties). To your point - I don't think we were imprisoning people who declined to be vaccinated - not sure where you may have got that story from. We had the benefit of vaccines not being anywhere near so politicised, and our local Faux News outpost certainly wasn't promoting any anti-vaccine nonsense. Lockdown laws I think in most western democracies were similarly orchestrated and enforced, but obviously I only lived through one set. Whether they were perceived as draconian, or successful, probably depends on your sense of social concern / obligation. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-covid?country=USA~AUS https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-...
    - flagrant_taco 3y ago
      Fact checked myself and I was m wrong in my memory of what the campus where for. Looks like it a forced quarantine for those infected or believed to be exposed, I w thinking they also force quarantined those who didn't get the jab as well. Sorry for the confusion! I guess different stories are starting to blend together from all the pandemic response hysteria and I should have checked that myself before posting. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59486285 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59486285
      - Jedd 3y ago
        All good, and thank you for the follow-up. I had friends that tried to get back from the UK to here around that time, and the delays were awful (several months) though somewhat complicated by immigration for one, rather than outright citizen return for both. As it happens they spent two weeks in that same center, before being allowed to proceed back to the southern states. From the outside looking in, it felt like a small price to pay. Most of our escapes through 2020 and early 2021 were due to poor process control at airports I think that AU and NZ citizens were pretty happy, for the most part, with the isolation & controls --> good health outcomes, so the two week quarantine was doubtless uncomfortable for many, but these exceptional cases of some tiny number of sociopaths trying to selfishly circumvent due process were so rare that they were necessarily notable, especially amongst the international press. BBC was probably pretty even-handed, but certainly some more reactionary media outlets (you know who I mean) were keen to try to beat-up the situation into something it was not.

smt88 3y ago

You are conflating "healthcare system" and "emergency measures taken by public health agencies during a pandemic".

flagrant_taco 3y ago
The gp was specifically talking about Australia's pandemic response, not sure what I conflated there
- Jedd 3y ago
  I apologise for any ambiguity there - I was, as smt88 suggests, mainly focusing on the healthcare system comparisons between basically every other western / democratic mildly advanced society, and the USA. My greater point was that during COVID19 we had the unique situation of a health crisis that presented almost equally to everyone on the planet, so deltas in responses were very obvious, and depending where you were and what your politics were, very useful for finger-pointing (of the 'at least we're doing better than them' or 'we should do what they're doing' varieties). To your point - I don't think we were imprisoning people who declined to be vaccinated - not sure where you may have got that story from. We had the benefit of vaccines not being anywhere near so politicised, and our local Faux News outpost certainly wasn't promoting any anti-vaccine nonsense. Lockdown laws I think in most western democracies were similarly orchestrated and enforced, but obviously I only lived through one set. Whether they were perceived as draconian, or successful, probably depends on your sense of social concern / obligation. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-covid?country=USA~AUS https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-...
  - flagrant_taco 3y ago
    Fact checked myself and I was m wrong in my memory of what the campus where for. Looks like it a forced quarantine for those infected or believed to be exposed, I w thinking they also force quarantined those who didn't get the jab as well. Sorry for the confusion! I guess different stories are starting to blend together from all the pandemic response hysteria and I should have checked that myself before posting. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59486285 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59486285
    - Jedd 3y ago
      All good, and thank you for the follow-up. I had friends that tried to get back from the UK to here around that time, and the delays were awful (several months) though somewhat complicated by immigration for one, rather than outright citizen return for both. As it happens they spent two weeks in that same center, before being allowed to proceed back to the southern states. From the outside looking in, it felt like a small price to pay. Most of our escapes through 2020 and early 2021 were due to poor process control at airports I think that AU and NZ citizens were pretty happy, for the most part, with the isolation & controls --> good health outcomes, so the two week quarantine was doubtless uncomfortable for many, but these exceptional cases of some tiny number of sociopaths trying to selfishly circumvent due process were so rare that they were necessarily notable, especially amongst the international press. BBC was probably pretty even-handed, but certainly some more reactionary media outlets (you know who I mean) were keen to try to beat-up the situation into something it was not.