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Then why is the button there? It doesn't make sense for their to be a button that you should never press. I'm not buying it. People say reclined seats cramp

Then why is the button there? It doesn't make sense for their to be a button that you should never press. I'm not buying it. People say reclined seats cramp their knees. I don't understand that. I'm 6'. The pivot point of the seat back aligns directly with my kneecaps. It makes zero difference at all to my knee space when the seat in front of me reclines. Maybe I have short shins. I've never asked for permission to recline, nor has anyone asked it of me. This seems fine.

mattwad 3y ago
It really depends on what type of plane and airline you are on, though.
trws 3y ago
I’m 6’7”. It makes a difference. On most flights I don’t worry about it because I arrange to be in a position where I have more room or can fold my legs under the seat (people sometimes get upset when my feet reach all the way to the kick bar under their seat for some reason), but if I’m stuck in regular economy in a middle seat, I could be inconvenienced or even injured by someone reclining roughly.
wheels 3y ago
I'll just throw out that until relatively recently, a lot of airplanes still had ashtrays. Antiquated seat design doesn't imply a set of rules. "If I'm not supposed to smoke, then why's there an ashtray?" Seat design has been largely static while people have gotten bigger, seats have gotten closer, and laptops have become a thing. On cheap European flights, they mostly have removed the buttons. I personally only ever use the button if nobody's behind me.
- AYoung010 3y ago
  I’ve heard that the continued presence of ashtrays isn’t a vestigial design feature so much as an intentional holdover, so that anyone who breaks the “no smoking” rule still has a safe place to put out their cigarette.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    That's for the ashtrays in the bathroom, which can still be found on the newest jets.
    - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      And that's probably why they need to constantly remind all the passengers that there is no smoking in the bathroom, and please don't tamper with the smoke detectors in there, we really mean it, please ignore the emergency-use ashtrays.
jader201 3y ago
It sounds like you may have not read — or overlooked — this point in the article: > "The airlines are intentionally selling that space to the person in front of you and to you, so it's just incredibly disingenuous of the airline," he said. "I understand why they like leaning. It's more of an airline issue because they're cramming seats so close together and pitting passengers against each other.” The button’s there so that passengers buying the ticket feel like they have additional room. And while that’s somewhat true, that passenger is taking space away from the passenger behind. So there is this shared space, and passengers are left to fend for themselves to determine who has rights to it.
- recursive 3y ago
  I see it but it doesn't make sense to me. If the seats are spaced at 40", (no idea if this is right) then everyone gets 40". Don't assume you're getting access to the space in front.
  - Vanit 3y ago
    Except when people believe this: > Then why is the button there? It doesn't make sense for their to be a button that you should never press. I'm not buying it. I'm of course cheekily quoting you back to yourself, but I'm sure you get the point:)
- tivert 3y ago
  > The button’s there so that passengers buying the ticket feel like they have additional room. And while that’s somewhat true, that passenger is taking space away from the passenger behind. And then the passenger behind can take that space from the person behind them, etc. I don't see the issue. I know there are a few rows where the seats can't recline, but it's on the airline to make adjustments to accommodate that.
  - blockwriter 3y ago
    I’m 6’7”. My knees render your button all but meaningless on most flights, but it’s annoying when someone in front of me attempts to investigate this fact past the initial resistance.
croes 3y ago
>Then why is the button there? The article answers that question. The airlines sold the space twice and shifted the problem to the passengers to fight over it. The button gives the illusion of comfort, but without mentioning that this comfort comes at the expense of others.
notatoad 3y ago
i'm 6'1 and if the person in front of me reclines their seat on an air canada or westjet 737, i literally cannot fit in a standard airline seat. it's not that i feel cramped, i have to pull my knees up and keep my feet off the floor if i don't want constant pressure on my knees from the seat in front of me. i always try to get the aisle seat so i can keep my legs in the aisle, and only have to curl up in an awkward position when the cart comes by.
- elif 3y ago
  6'5 and i don't fit sitting 'however i like' regardless of reclined or not. it is a very narrow range of heights under a limited set of postures where this actually makes any difference. but i do fit in any seat, even frontier, ryanair $50 plane seats, even on 14 hour econo flights by uncomfortably bearing a variety of postures and regular stretching breaks. that's just life.
yafbum 3y ago
6'3" over here. When I don't spread my legs, my knees touch the seat in front. If the person in front tries to recline, they feel resistance, they push more. No move. They slam into the seatback. It hurts me and it doesn't let them recline. When I spread my legs to avoid the backseat in front, now this is the vicious part... Their seat can recline, but if they lift their armrest, the back of the armrest jams into my knee, with force amplified by leverage. Really painful. Nowadays on longhaul flights I lean over and apologize ahead, sorry sir/ma'am, if you feel resistance when you recline, it's because your seat is hitting my leg, please don't use force. Some are unhappy. If so I apologize for the inconvenience but I don't control the length of my legs. Basic courtesy would require you to check that it's safe to recline.
rawgabbit 3y ago
You must only fly business class. I was on a flight this weekend in economy. In front of me was a man over 6 ft and he could not leave his seat to go to the bathroom because the person in front of him had fully reclined. That person fully reclined because the person in front of her had fully reclined. It was physically impossible for him to contort his body out of the seat.
dingaling 3y ago
> Then why is the button there? It isn't on Allegiant, Norwegian and Ryanair seats. They're fixed-position; saves weight, maintenance costs and prevents arguments.
ryandvm 3y ago
It's like a button that takes $5 from the person behind you. Of course you're incentivized to press it. Doubly so if your victim has the option as well (except for the poor schlubs in the last row). Maybe we should all just press it as soon as we can. Or maybe nobody should. There isn't a right answer. The real question is why the airlines have even set up this crazy little psychology experiment. It's probably because many years ago somebody concluded that the value of making the passenger feel like they have the tiniest shred of agency is greater than the cost of unnecessary conflict between passengers. I sure do look forward to pressing that damn button though and I've never gotten in a fight on a plane, so maybe they were right.

mattwad 3y ago

It really depends on what type of plane and airline you are on, though.

trws 3y ago

I’m 6’7”. It makes a difference. On most flights I don’t worry about it because I arrange to be in a position where I have more room or can fold my legs under the seat (people sometimes get upset when my feet reach all the way to the kick bar under their seat for some reason), but if I’m stuck in regular economy in a middle seat, I could be inconvenienced or even injured by someone reclining roughly.

wheels 3y ago

I'll just throw out that until relatively recently, a lot of airplanes still had ashtrays. Antiquated seat design doesn't imply a set of rules. "If I'm not supposed to smoke, then why's there an ashtray?" Seat design has been largely static while people have gotten bigger, seats have gotten closer, and laptops have become a thing. On cheap European flights, they mostly have removed the buttons. I personally only ever use the button if nobody's behind me.

AYoung010 3y ago
I’ve heard that the continued presence of ashtrays isn’t a vestigial design feature so much as an intentional holdover, so that anyone who breaks the “no smoking” rule still has a safe place to put out their cigarette.
- bombcar 3y ago
  That's for the ashtrays in the bathroom, which can still be found on the newest jets.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    And that's probably why they need to constantly remind all the passengers that there is no smoking in the bathroom, and please don't tamper with the smoke detectors in there, we really mean it, please ignore the emergency-use ashtrays.

jader201 3y ago

It sounds like you may have not read — or overlooked — this point in the article: > "The airlines are intentionally selling that space to the person in front of you and to you, so it's just incredibly disingenuous of the airline," he said. "I understand why they like leaning. It's more of an airline issue because they're cramming seats so close together and pitting passengers against each other.” The button’s there so that passengers buying the ticket feel like they have additional room. And while that’s somewhat true, that passenger is taking space away from the passenger behind. So there is this shared space, and passengers are left to fend for themselves to determine who has rights to it.

recursive 3y ago
I see it but it doesn't make sense to me. If the seats are spaced at 40", (no idea if this is right) then everyone gets 40". Don't assume you're getting access to the space in front.
- Vanit 3y ago
  Except when people believe this: > Then why is the button there? It doesn't make sense for their to be a button that you should never press. I'm not buying it. I'm of course cheekily quoting you back to yourself, but I'm sure you get the point:)
tivert 3y ago
> The button’s there so that passengers buying the ticket feel like they have additional room. And while that’s somewhat true, that passenger is taking space away from the passenger behind. And then the passenger behind can take that space from the person behind them, etc. I don't see the issue. I know there are a few rows where the seats can't recline, but it's on the airline to make adjustments to accommodate that.
- blockwriter 3y ago
  I’m 6’7”. My knees render your button all but meaningless on most flights, but it’s annoying when someone in front of me attempts to investigate this fact past the initial resistance.

croes 3y ago

>Then why is the button there? The article answers that question. The airlines sold the space twice and shifted the problem to the passengers to fight over it. The button gives the illusion of comfort, but without mentioning that this comfort comes at the expense of others.

notatoad 3y ago

i'm 6'1 and if the person in front of me reclines their seat on an air canada or westjet 737, i literally cannot fit in a standard airline seat. it's not that i feel cramped, i have to pull my knees up and keep my feet off the floor if i don't want constant pressure on my knees from the seat in front of me. i always try to get the aisle seat so i can keep my legs in the aisle, and only have to curl up in an awkward position when the cart comes by.

elif 3y ago
6'5 and i don't fit sitting 'however i like' regardless of reclined or not. it is a very narrow range of heights under a limited set of postures where this actually makes any difference. but i do fit in any seat, even frontier, ryanair $50 plane seats, even on 14 hour econo flights by uncomfortably bearing a variety of postures and regular stretching breaks. that's just life.

yafbum 3y ago

6'3" over here. When I don't spread my legs, my knees touch the seat in front. If the person in front tries to recline, they feel resistance, they push more. No move. They slam into the seatback. It hurts me and it doesn't let them recline. When I spread my legs to avoid the backseat in front, now this is the vicious part... Their seat can recline, but if they lift their armrest, the back of the armrest jams into my knee, with force amplified by leverage. Really painful. Nowadays on longhaul flights I lean over and apologize ahead, sorry sir/ma'am, if you feel resistance when you recline, it's because your seat is hitting my leg, please don't use force. Some are unhappy. If so I apologize for the inconvenience but I don't control the length of my legs. Basic courtesy would require you to check that it's safe to recline.

rawgabbit 3y ago

You must only fly business class. I was on a flight this weekend in economy. In front of me was a man over 6 ft and he could not leave his seat to go to the bathroom because the person in front of him had fully reclined. That person fully reclined because the person in front of her had fully reclined. It was physically impossible for him to contort his body out of the seat.

dingaling 3y ago

> Then why is the button there? It isn't on Allegiant, Norwegian and Ryanair seats. They're fixed-position; saves weight, maintenance costs and prevents arguments.

ryandvm 3y ago

It's like a button that takes $5 from the person behind you. Of course you're incentivized to press it. Doubly so if your victim has the option as well (except for the poor schlubs in the last row). Maybe we should all just press it as soon as we can. Or maybe nobody should. There isn't a right answer. The real question is why the airlines have even set up this crazy little psychology experiment. It's probably because many years ago somebody concluded that the value of making the passenger feel like they have the tiniest shred of agency is greater than the cost of unnecessary conflict between passengers. I sure do look forward to pressing that damn button though and I've never gotten in a fight on a plane, so maybe they were right.