5 ms·

I'm starting to get the feeling that this shit is never going to stop coming. Something HUGE will have to happen if we want the government (& people/organizatio

by CWIZO 15y ago

I'm starting to get the feeling that this shit is never going to stop coming. Something HUGE will have to happen if we want the government (& people/organizations that are pushing this bills forward) to realize that this does not lead anywhere good. But what? A full blown anarchy, massive revolutions? It seems to me that there is no reasoning with this people and that riots (or something such) are the only was to go here (if it comes that far). I'm not advocating riots/anarchy/... mind you, but I fear that is the only way. But ... seeing how my fellow citizens are (completely apathetic), that seems unlikely to happen even if they take the internet away completely.

iwwr 15y ago
The word "anarchy" is thrown around when a politician does not understand how something exists without their approval. Maybe we should embrace this idea once more. Anarchy is not the same as disorder or lack of rules. Opposing chaos is a no brainer, what the political system is opposing is precisely the ordered anarchy that the internet has become.
- CWIZO 15y ago
  >> Maybe we should embrace this idea once more. What idea? I was suggesting anarchy/revolution/whatever to demonstrate to our leaders that we do not agree with what they are doing, and that they cannot shove us around however they wish.
  - angersock 15y ago
    Do you pay taxes? Do you use the police when you have trouble? Are you armed with modern weapons? If you support the government, and have also given them a monopoly of force, you are explicitly supporting a social contract you seem to detest. EDIT: Come now, why the downvotes? I'm not saying they are correct or not--I'm merely pointing out that it is somewhat contradictory to both call for revolution/anarchy and yet still de facto support the government. EDIT2: Moreover, the final part of the parent explicitly says "...cannot shove us around however they wish." They very much can, as we have all given our respective governments reasonable monopoly on force in exchange for whatever it is they do that benefits us. Complaining about that while at the same time being a disarmed taxpayer is akin to complaining about the rain while leaving your umbrella indoors.
    - CWIZO 15y ago
      Yes I pay taxes, otherwise I would be thrown in jail. That doesn't mean I support the government. It would be rather hard to fight the power behind bars, don't you think? Your arguments is the same as: you support factories that pollute, because you are breathing air.
- slowpoke 15y ago
  >Anarchy is not the same as disorder or lack of rules. Well said. Anarchy is not a world without rules - it's a world without rulers. I always like to refer to something that Alan Moore (the author of V for Vendetta) said: he regards the current state of society as anarchy gone horribly wrong. As he remarks, people often like to claim that in a state of anarchy, the strongest would eventually rule, and use this to dismiss the philosophy as a whole. Now he asks (and so do I), how is this different from our current society? The strong (corporations and governments backed by monetary and military power) control the weak (the general populace), and will do everything to keep the current state of affairs and to prevent the loss of their power, including threats, lies and atrocities against life. Anarchy is the most natural and best state of human society. It is actually unavoidable, since entropy dictates that any society will eventually disintegrate. Instead of counteracting this with increasingly strict control, which always leads to some sort of authoritarian dictatorship (which will also eventually destroy itself), we should embrace chaos, and try to work with it, instead of pretending it doesn't exist or - worse - that it is tamable.
  - tripzilch 15y ago
    Heute die Welt, Morgens das Sonnensystem!
jakeonthemove 15y ago
It'll most likely be a second coming of the Internet, more decentralized than ever using mesh networking... People already use gigabit LAN networks in apartment blocks - combine that with high speed Wifi and other wireless/optics communications and new protocols and it's problem solved - then governments and regulating organizations will have to lower their demands or people would just stop using them - solves the trans-oceanic Internet problem, as well...
snowwrestler 15y ago
Of course it is never going to stop coming. That does not mean that all is lost though. The Internet as we know it today did not grow up in unregulated anarchy, it was purposefully structured this way by government action (as the article points out). That is proof that governments, given the right inputs, can get things right when it comes to the Internet. If you're fearful of what the government might do next, the thing to do is engage and influence the government to get it right again--not despair and dream of revolution.

by CWIZO 15y ago

iwwr 15y ago

The word "anarchy" is thrown around when a politician does not understand how something exists without their approval. Maybe we should embrace this idea once more. Anarchy is not the same as disorder or lack of rules. Opposing chaos is a no brainer, what the political system is opposing is precisely the ordered anarchy that the internet has become.

CWIZO 15y ago
>> Maybe we should embrace this idea once more. What idea? I was suggesting anarchy/revolution/whatever to demonstrate to our leaders that we do not agree with what they are doing, and that they cannot shove us around however they wish.
- angersock 15y ago
  Do you pay taxes? Do you use the police when you have trouble? Are you armed with modern weapons? If you support the government, and have also given them a monopoly of force, you are explicitly supporting a social contract you seem to detest. EDIT: Come now, why the downvotes? I'm not saying they are correct or not--I'm merely pointing out that it is somewhat contradictory to both call for revolution/anarchy and yet still de facto support the government. EDIT2: Moreover, the final part of the parent explicitly says "...cannot shove us around however they wish." They very much can, as we have all given our respective governments reasonable monopoly on force in exchange for whatever it is they do that benefits us. Complaining about that while at the same time being a disarmed taxpayer is akin to complaining about the rain while leaving your umbrella indoors.
  - CWIZO 15y ago
    Yes I pay taxes, otherwise I would be thrown in jail. That doesn't mean I support the government. It would be rather hard to fight the power behind bars, don't you think? Your arguments is the same as: you support factories that pollute, because you are breathing air.
slowpoke 15y ago
>Anarchy is not the same as disorder or lack of rules. Well said. Anarchy is not a world without rules - it's a world without rulers. I always like to refer to something that Alan Moore (the author of V for Vendetta) said: he regards the current state of society as anarchy gone horribly wrong. As he remarks, people often like to claim that in a state of anarchy, the strongest would eventually rule, and use this to dismiss the philosophy as a whole. Now he asks (and so do I), how is this different from our current society? The strong (corporations and governments backed by monetary and military power) control the weak (the general populace), and will do everything to keep the current state of affairs and to prevent the loss of their power, including threats, lies and atrocities against life. Anarchy is the most natural and best state of human society. It is actually unavoidable, since entropy dictates that any society will eventually disintegrate. Instead of counteracting this with increasingly strict control, which always leads to some sort of authoritarian dictatorship (which will also eventually destroy itself), we should embrace chaos, and try to work with it, instead of pretending it doesn't exist or - worse - that it is tamable.
- tripzilch 15y ago
  Heute die Welt, Morgens das Sonnensystem!

jakeonthemove 15y ago

It'll most likely be a second coming of the Internet, more decentralized than ever using mesh networking... People already use gigabit LAN networks in apartment blocks - combine that with high speed Wifi and other wireless/optics communications and new protocols and it's problem solved - then governments and regulating organizations will have to lower their demands or people would just stop using them - solves the trans-oceanic Internet problem, as well...

snowwrestler 15y ago

Of course it is never going to stop coming. That does not mean that all is lost though. The Internet as we know it today did not grow up in unregulated anarchy, it was purposefully structured this way by government action (as the article points out). That is proof that governments, given the right inputs, can get things right when it comes to the Internet. If you're fearful of what the government might do next, the thing to do is engage and influence the government to get it right again--not despair and dream of revolution.