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I was hoping he'd offer some advice for those who struggle with language learning. Can anyone share an opinion about the best way to learn a new language (or s

I was hoping he'd offer some advice for those who struggle with language learning. Can anyone share an opinion about the best way to learn a new language (or several)?

mds101 15y ago
In my experience the best way to learn a language is to use a book and read/write enough to have a basic hang of the language. Once you have the basics down, force yourself to start thinking in that language. Make it a game: each time you get an entire sentence of your thought process correct in that language reward yourself. If you make a mistake punish yourself. The disadvantage to this method is you need a lot of discipline to keep constantly forcing yourself to think in a new language, and you will spend a lot more time when thinking.
zyfo 15y ago
How-to-learn-any-language forums is to polyglots what Hacker News is to hackers. http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html
nodata 15y ago
Make an amazing number of mistakes, make a constant fool of yourself, and above all - KEEP GOING!
swombat 15y ago
Disclaimer: Pure opinion. I only speak 3 languages reasonably fluently, and have a basic to moderate understanding of a few others. It's not like there's any scientific backing for this method, though. Step 1: bootstrap. Before you can really learn the language, you need to set up some basic structures in your mind for that language. You need a basic understanding of grammar, a few useful sentence patterns, etc. You need those to be wired in so that they can be called upon in conversation, so just reading is no good - you have to both listen and speak. I've found the Pimsleur courses to be excellent for this bootstrapping, especially those that have 3 sets of lessons (3x30 half-hour lessons = pretty solid bootstrapping), but even with just one you get some solid basics like simple sentences, numbers, basic grammar, etc. Step 2: grow basic vocabulary. Even after bootstrapping, you'll still have a vocabulary that's way too limited to engage in meaningful conversation (though at least you can have uber-simple conversations like asking for prices, directions, and being polite). At this point you need vocabulary - a lot of it. The best way I've found to build this is to read, with a good dictionary and (if the language needs it) verb conjugation book handy so that you can actually understand things. Basically, take beginner-level reading materials, and, with a pencil in hand, read, paragraph by paragraph. While you read the paragraph, underline words you're not 100% sure about (but don't stop reading until you get to the end of the paragraph). Once you're finished with a paragraph, look things up and write the definitions in the margins. By the time you've read 2-3 beginner books like this, you can probably handle a simple conversation about a topic other than the price of a train ticket. Step 3: total immersion. This is the key step, and you can even skip the previous two if you're in a rush, and go straight for that, but then it'll be very hard and you'll waste a lot of "prime time" (i.e. time spent surrounded exclusively by native speakers) learning the basics you could have learned at home. In this step, you need to speak only that language for at least a few weeks, ideally three months or so. Stay away from people who speak your native language (i.e. don't hang around with exchange students or whatever, however "safe" that may seem, since it will destroy the main benefit of this). Speak only the target language, and within a few weeks something magical will happen: you'll switch from thinking in english and translating, to thinking directly in the target language. This is the holy grail. At this point, you can speak. You may still have a LOT to learn (depending on the language... e.g. with Chinese, well done, you can speak - now you can learn to read ideograms, which is twice as hard), but you've got enough of the building blocks that you don't need a deliberate system other than speaking to people in that language and reading stuff in that language. The more you speak/read, the better you'll get. Have fun!
- bravura 15y ago
  Advice please. I have "party French". In social circumstances where someone is willing to be gracious to me, and talk slowly, and explain what certain words mean, I can carry on a conversation. So I believe I have reached and done Step 3. I now want to develop "adversarial French", i.e. a command of the language that I can use in circumstances where people don't actually care if I understand them. However, I feel like I hit a plateau. Perhaps it was because I didn't do complete immersion, and switched back to English? Would that be the solution to me advancing further, or is there another technique to use?
  - jballanc 15y ago
    I've been told that you cannot consider to have mastered a language until you dream in that language. Total immersion is likely the only thing that will get you over that plateau.
    - heyitsnick 15y ago
      I dreamt in Spanish (and spoke Spanish in my sleep) way before I had mastered it. Hell, I haven't "mastered" it now after four years and doubt I ever will. It's not a particularly useful barometer for language domination; I dreamt in it just because I was immersed in the language and went to sleep reading or thinking about it.
  - ghshephard 15y ago
    Some interesting research/Myths on learning a second language: http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/myths.html http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/myths.html The one that caught my attention was, "Myth 3: The more time students spend in a second language context, the quicker they learn the language" - I would have never guessed that. Just goes to show -it's always important to do the research.
  - swombat 15y ago
    I remember being sent by my parents to Germany, when I was a kid, where I stayed with a German family for 2 weeks. My command of German was pretty pathetic, but that didn't stop me from engaging in a (in hindsight, hilariously insensitive from both sides) debate about whether the Swiss were more evil than the Germans (my hosts unwisely decided to claim that Switzerland was evil because of the Swiss banks... I couldn't resist such a gaping wide opening for counter-argument, and the ensuring argument included me retorting that I felt that given the history of Germany, they were hardly in a position to call other countries evil, considering they had slaughtered millions of people around Europe not all that long ago). I was 12 or so, I think. Anyway, the point of this: I think adversarial conversation is more a matter of mindset than of mastery of the language. If anything, not understanding half of what is being said helps to encourage adversarial conversation on both sides :-) With respect to your problem, yes, total immersion is a good solution (imho, disclaimer, etc). Travel to that country and stay away from English speakers, and speak only that language for a month. If I'm right, you'll build the mental wiring necessary to speak that language in any circumstances (whether you're understood is then just a matter of practice).

I was hoping he'd offer some advice for those who struggle with language learning. Can anyone share an opinion about the best way to learn a new language (or several)?

mds101 15y ago

In my experience the best way to learn a language is to use a book and read/write enough to have a basic hang of the language. Once you have the basics down, force yourself to start thinking in that language. Make it a game: each time you get an entire sentence of your thought process correct in that language reward yourself. If you make a mistake punish yourself. The disadvantage to this method is you need a lot of discipline to keep constantly forcing yourself to think in a new language, and you will spend a lot more time when thinking.

zyfo 15y ago

How-to-learn-any-language forums is to polyglots what Hacker News is to hackers. http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html

nodata 15y ago

Make an amazing number of mistakes, make a constant fool of yourself, and above all - KEEP GOING!

swombat 15y ago

Disclaimer: Pure opinion. I only speak 3 languages reasonably fluently, and have a basic to moderate understanding of a few others. It's not like there's any scientific backing for this method, though. Step 1: bootstrap. Before you can really learn the language, you need to set up some basic structures in your mind for that language. You need a basic understanding of grammar, a few useful sentence patterns, etc. You need those to be wired in so that they can be called upon in conversation, so just reading is no good - you have to both listen and speak. I've found the Pimsleur courses to be excellent for this bootstrapping, especially those that have 3 sets of lessons (3x30 half-hour lessons = pretty solid bootstrapping), but even with just one you get some solid basics like simple sentences, numbers, basic grammar, etc. Step 2: grow basic vocabulary. Even after bootstrapping, you'll still have a vocabulary that's way too limited to engage in meaningful conversation (though at least you can have uber-simple conversations like asking for prices, directions, and being polite). At this point you need vocabulary - a lot of it. The best way I've found to build this is to read, with a good dictionary and (if the language needs it) verb conjugation book handy so that you can actually understand things. Basically, take beginner-level reading materials, and, with a pencil in hand, read, paragraph by paragraph. While you read the paragraph, underline words you're not 100% sure about (but don't stop reading until you get to the end of the paragraph). Once you're finished with a paragraph, look things up and write the definitions in the margins. By the time you've read 2-3 beginner books like this, you can probably handle a simple conversation about a topic other than the price of a train ticket. Step 3: total immersion. This is the key step, and you can even skip the previous two if you're in a rush, and go straight for that, but then it'll be very hard and you'll waste a lot of "prime time" (i.e. time spent surrounded exclusively by native speakers) learning the basics you could have learned at home. In this step, you need to speak only that language for at least a few weeks, ideally three months or so. Stay away from people who speak your native language (i.e. don't hang around with exchange students or whatever, however "safe" that may seem, since it will destroy the main benefit of this). Speak only the target language, and within a few weeks something magical will happen: you'll switch from thinking in english and translating, to thinking directly in the target language. This is the holy grail. At this point, you can speak. You may still have a LOT to learn (depending on the language... e.g. with Chinese, well done, you can speak - now you can learn to read ideograms, which is twice as hard), but you've got enough of the building blocks that you don't need a deliberate system other than speaking to people in that language and reading stuff in that language. The more you speak/read, the better you'll get. Have fun!

bravura 15y ago
Advice please. I have "party French". In social circumstances where someone is willing to be gracious to me, and talk slowly, and explain what certain words mean, I can carry on a conversation. So I believe I have reached and done Step 3. I now want to develop "adversarial French", i.e. a command of the language that I can use in circumstances where people don't actually care if I understand them. However, I feel like I hit a plateau. Perhaps it was because I didn't do complete immersion, and switched back to English? Would that be the solution to me advancing further, or is there another technique to use?
- jballanc 15y ago
  I've been told that you cannot consider to have mastered a language until you dream in that language. Total immersion is likely the only thing that will get you over that plateau.
  - heyitsnick 15y ago
    I dreamt in Spanish (and spoke Spanish in my sleep) way before I had mastered it. Hell, I haven't "mastered" it now after four years and doubt I ever will. It's not a particularly useful barometer for language domination; I dreamt in it just because I was immersed in the language and went to sleep reading or thinking about it.
- ghshephard 15y ago
  Some interesting research/Myths on learning a second language: http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/myths.html http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/myths.html The one that caught my attention was, "Myth 3: The more time students spend in a second language context, the quicker they learn the language" - I would have never guessed that. Just goes to show -it's always important to do the research.
- swombat 15y ago
  I remember being sent by my parents to Germany, when I was a kid, where I stayed with a German family for 2 weeks. My command of German was pretty pathetic, but that didn't stop me from engaging in a (in hindsight, hilariously insensitive from both sides) debate about whether the Swiss were more evil than the Germans (my hosts unwisely decided to claim that Switzerland was evil because of the Swiss banks... I couldn't resist such a gaping wide opening for counter-argument, and the ensuring argument included me retorting that I felt that given the history of Germany, they were hardly in a position to call other countries evil, considering they had slaughtered millions of people around Europe not all that long ago). I was 12 or so, I think. Anyway, the point of this: I think adversarial conversation is more a matter of mindset than of mastery of the language. If anything, not understanding half of what is being said helps to encourage adversarial conversation on both sides :-) With respect to your problem, yes, total immersion is a good solution (imho, disclaimer, etc). Travel to that country and stay away from English speakers, and speak only that language for a month. If I'm right, you'll build the mental wiring necessary to speak that language in any circumstances (whether you're understood is then just a matter of practice).