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My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, wh

by hnick 3y ago

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been an issue near construction sometimes but also some wider merges where 2 lanes become one (the markings in Canberra seem to confuse it, but not Sydney) so it does depends a lot on road conditions, but as I say it's annoying at most and I wouldn't call it dangerous in my car and it helps more than it hinders. For AEB, the same system is used in the adaptive cruise control and it's been near perfect. One funny thing was that it just alarmed and fully died in outback Victoria - apparently it is coded to do this as a fail-safe if it hasn't detected a car for a long time due to the system potentially not working. The service centre employee said Hyundai are working on a patch to extend the timeout since it's a little low for country Australian roads (approximately an hour at the moment I think).

kovacs_ 3y ago
Hyundai had a not so great reputation in the early 2000s in the US. In recent years however this opinion seems to have shifted. Been driving an Ioniq 5 2023 for a couple months now with no phantom/emergency braking issues. I'm not in love with the performance of the lane keep without being on an HDA2 marked highway. I have to fight it just enough for it to not be useful on certain well marked backroads. Considering tossing in a Comma 3 to give no-hands driver assist a shot.
- eyphka 3y ago
  Hyundai has been having engine failures, would not recommend as experienced spontaneous engine failure on a less than year old car. Check consumer reports or source below. “In 2020, NHTSA announced civil penalties for the companies—totaling $210 million—for not recalling vehicles in a timely manner. In 2021, a whistleblower who provided NHTSA with information that led to those penalties was awarded $24 million, the agency’s first-ever whistleblower award.” https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why-so-many-hyundai-kia-vehicles-get-recalled-for-fire-risk-a1169940635/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why...
  - mmaurizi 3y ago
    The Ioniq 5 is an EV, can't imagine the engine failures on their ICE cars will have any effects.
    - eyphka 3y ago
      The engine failures are mostly for combustion, and have resulted in multiple deaths, including nearly my own.
- evdoks 3y ago
  Comma 3 is s the best, to be honest. Due to CAN-FD on Ioniq 5 the setup is a little bit more complex, but this is the best experience, though they are still working on their own AEB implementation.
- wil421 3y ago
  Hyundai had terrible engine and transmission problems in the 2010s. A local dealer was offering 20 year warranties to get them off the lot. There was a Reddit post of a 300k+ Kia that had gone through something like 7 engines and 4 transmissions. They basically 4 new cars worth of engine and transmission parts. They have great styling that’s comparable to German cars. I wish the US automakers could take some hints. From what I’ve heard the Genesis lineup is very luxurious.
- pixl97 3y ago
  If you use single pedal mode watch out for your lack of brake lights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YW7x9U5TQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YW7x9U5TQ
grugagag 3y ago
Maybe also it depends on the type of traffic and local driving habits and what saves your life in one city or country could kill you in another. The thing is, I’d rather have it disabled and not save lives but also not take any by default. It will surely improve over time and if it becomes flawless sure, I’d take it. The thing is that I don’t wan’t to be beta testing with my life or my passengers lives. In cases where it’s not possible to disable the feature we better constantly record the car from all angles to have it as a proof against the manufacturer in case something goes bad. Near accidents caused by buggy software should not get a free pass, but require the manufactuter to fully reimburse you or pay you some serious fine.
- grepfru_it 3y ago
  Definitely. As a New Yorker now living in the Deep South, it’s night and day. All of those features are off (including traction control) in the northern cities. You need to be on your toes in nyc especially. But in the south? Not a single one of the original poster’s complaints are valid here with the exception of cars who cut you off and then speed away (no need to slam on the brakes, cruise control). Personally, the early brake warning has saved someone else’s property at lease twice.
  - ics 3y ago
    I'm familiar with NYC and North to South Carolina traffic. The only time I have had issues outside of the city was on a drive up to Montreal, where the lane assist misread the lane shift on potentially icy road. Wasn't happy about that one, but it was easy to overcome. I've never had an automatic braking incident outside of NYC that I can recall.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ics 3y ago
> From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation Right, if I had to condense my issues into something more constructive it is just that: if regulators want to pursue a mandate for these systems, they should also work on establishing testing criteria and specifications that cover the many different conditions drivers face and reduces variation between manufacturers as possible. Not an easy task. To give a quick example: another commenter in this thread states that lane assist only kicks in at 35mph. That is true in some models but not all which could lead to some nice surprises. Further, the speed limit in NYC is 25mph so it's not unusual if the road surface is decent to be cruising closer to 30. Unless there's a threshold for activation, you might be walking a fine line between "safety on"/"safety off" and any resulting corrections it might make.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  Automaker implementation and the chosen hardware to do the implementation on. Meaning that, for example I drive a Honda which has a camera and a radar. The camera is for lane assist from what I gathered and the radar for ACC and AEB. If I accelerate into traffic and get close to a car while accelerating, it will start flashing a warning light and if I still don't stop accelerating or braking, it will intervene, but if the other car accelerates it doesn't do anything. So the radar setup is quite well done and it gives very few false positives. The lane assist system is a bit bad though because once it identifies the lane markings it does not take into account potential hazards that want me to change a lane or exit it for a few seconds to avoid road hazard lights or something similar. The point I am trying to make is that there should be a high standard to what drives the AEB and it should not rely on cameras, which seems to be what automakers want to implement driving assisted features to save on more advanced tech. And somehow I don't think they're gonna pony up for high-speed cameras that can replace a radar at accuracy. Maybe the intention is good, but most likely the implementation will suck.
  - anakaine 3y ago
    Alternatively, it should have a wider field of view and if nothing is obviously very wrong let the driver move the wheel around without intervention.
imp0cat 3y ago
Yes, *near* perfect is the correct word. Anecdotally, in a 2021 Hyundai, I do get random AEB warnings in the city mostly when merging into fast-flowing traffic. Thankfully it is possible to have the system set to beep only as slamming on the brakes while merging is an experience everyone wants to avoid. Also, it sometimes panics when coming to a stop on an incline with a car ahead. I guess it is unable to account for the fact that the car will stop by itself just because the road is going uphill?
- hnick 3y ago
  I'm not sure how exactly it works, but for my Hyundai at least it doesn't seem to be "you will hit this if you do nothing", the alerts generally pop up if I'm actively accelerating. Maybe if I got closer it'd kick in, I've just never heard the alarms when I'm already slowing down (but should be doing so faster).
  - imp0cat 3y ago
    I know mine is camera-based. The car does not have adaptive cruise control, so no radar, just front parking sensors - but those are probably just used for the "the car ahead of you has started moving!" warning, which is the exact opposite of AEB.
    - hnick 3y ago
      Ah OK, in my car AEB and SCC ("Smart Cruise Control" as they call it) are the same sub-system - when one broke due to the no-input fail-safe, so did the other. The radar is behind the badge and works in tandem with the camera I believe.
    - evdoks 3y ago
      By the way, no adaptive cruise control does not always mean that there is no radar. Some car still keep the radar and use it for AEB, but have ACC disabled I’d you do not purchase it when configuring the car.
anakaine 3y ago
Driving a Hyundai hire in Sydney with lane keep and aeb was the thing that eventually convinced me to upgrade the 4x4 to something with these features. Driving a hire Subaru with the same features around Sydney was what convinced me to drive a few more and observe who had good implementations, and who poor. Recently upgraded to a Chinese ute. I've about the first 1000km driven now, and whilst it's occasionally made some mistakes, if my hands are on the wheel it's easy enough to just stay the course and it let's me do as I wish. I can also turn all the setting to off at the touch of a button and make that the default too. I quite enjoy having these features because they have been implemented well.
lloeki 3y ago
I have a Mazda too, I can confirm GP statement regarding lane assist... in many areas but not all: - when it works it works so well the car basically drives itself esp. when you throw cruise control into the mix (this includes auto coasting + breaking) - when it doesn't it's bouncing across the lane + applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking I did not have any issue with emergency braking (never triggered, any situation where it would have triggered got handled by the driver first), but I did have a few (light) phantom braking events in cruise control. Not related to lane assist control (uses a separate mechanism) but I did have issues with blind spot alert, it was randomly alerting regularly when no car was present. Mazda identified the cause as winter tyres throwing the sensors off. A software update is supposed to fix that but we disabled the feature so it'll be done on the next scheduled maintenance.
- hnick 3y ago
  > applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking It doesn't turn off when you indicate to change lanes? It does on the Hyundai.
  - tssva 3y ago
    I have a Mazda and don't have any of the issues the commenter has including any type of resistance when changing lanes.
  - astura 3y ago
    Mine does too (Volkswagen) but it's been my observation that most people don't indicate to change lanes.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      But I often see them used as an "apology blinker" (when they turn on the indicator after they've started to change lanes or turn). Makes me laugh every time. I mean, at that point, why bother with the signal at all?
  - ics 3y ago
mistercheph 3y ago
Bad North American repurtation comes from dealer network afaik.
- Grazester 3y ago
  It came from cheap unreliable cars they made in the early 90's. Those things were through away vehicles. By the early 2000's they were just cheaply made(material wise) but reliability has improved vastly.

by hnick 3y ago

kovacs_ 3y ago

Hyundai had a not so great reputation in the early 2000s in the US. In recent years however this opinion seems to have shifted. Been driving an Ioniq 5 2023 for a couple months now with no phantom/emergency braking issues. I'm not in love with the performance of the lane keep without being on an HDA2 marked highway. I have to fight it just enough for it to not be useful on certain well marked backroads. Considering tossing in a Comma 3 to give no-hands driver assist a shot.

eyphka 3y ago
Hyundai has been having engine failures, would not recommend as experienced spontaneous engine failure on a less than year old car. Check consumer reports or source below. “In 2020, NHTSA announced civil penalties for the companies—totaling $210 million—for not recalling vehicles in a timely manner. In 2021, a whistleblower who provided NHTSA with information that led to those penalties was awarded $24 million, the agency’s first-ever whistleblower award.” https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why-so-many-hyundai-kia-vehicles-get-recalled-for-fire-risk-a1169940635/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why...
- mmaurizi 3y ago
  The Ioniq 5 is an EV, can't imagine the engine failures on their ICE cars will have any effects.
  - eyphka 3y ago
    The engine failures are mostly for combustion, and have resulted in multiple deaths, including nearly my own.
evdoks 3y ago
Comma 3 is s the best, to be honest. Due to CAN-FD on Ioniq 5 the setup is a little bit more complex, but this is the best experience, though they are still working on their own AEB implementation.
wil421 3y ago
Hyundai had terrible engine and transmission problems in the 2010s. A local dealer was offering 20 year warranties to get them off the lot. There was a Reddit post of a 300k+ Kia that had gone through something like 7 engines and 4 transmissions. They basically 4 new cars worth of engine and transmission parts. They have great styling that’s comparable to German cars. I wish the US automakers could take some hints. From what I’ve heard the Genesis lineup is very luxurious.
pixl97 3y ago
If you use single pedal mode watch out for your lack of brake lights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YW7x9U5TQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YW7x9U5TQ

grugagag 3y ago

Maybe also it depends on the type of traffic and local driving habits and what saves your life in one city or country could kill you in another. The thing is, I’d rather have it disabled and not save lives but also not take any by default. It will surely improve over time and if it becomes flawless sure, I’d take it. The thing is that I don’t wan’t to be beta testing with my life or my passengers lives. In cases where it’s not possible to disable the feature we better constantly record the car from all angles to have it as a proof against the manufacturer in case something goes bad. Near accidents caused by buggy software should not get a free pass, but require the manufactuter to fully reimburse you or pay you some serious fine.

grepfru_it 3y ago
Definitely. As a New Yorker now living in the Deep South, it’s night and day. All of those features are off (including traction control) in the northern cities. You need to be on your toes in nyc especially. But in the south? Not a single one of the original poster’s complaints are valid here with the exception of cars who cut you off and then speed away (no need to slam on the brakes, cruise control). Personally, the early brake warning has saved someone else’s property at lease twice.
- ics 3y ago
  I'm familiar with NYC and North to South Carolina traffic. The only time I have had issues outside of the city was on a drive up to Montreal, where the lane assist misread the lane shift on potentially icy road. Wasn't happy about that one, but it was easy to overcome. I've never had an automatic braking incident outside of NYC that I can recall.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ics 3y ago

> From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation Right, if I had to condense my issues into something more constructive it is just that: if regulators want to pursue a mandate for these systems, they should also work on establishing testing criteria and specifications that cover the many different conditions drivers face and reduces variation between manufacturers as possible. Not an easy task. To give a quick example: another commenter in this thread states that lane assist only kicks in at 35mph. That is true in some models but not all which could lead to some nice surprises. Further, the speed limit in NYC is 25mph so it's not unusual if the road surface is decent to be cruising closer to 30. Unless there's a threshold for activation, you might be walking a fine line between "safety on"/"safety off" and any resulting corrections it might make.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago
Automaker implementation and the chosen hardware to do the implementation on. Meaning that, for example I drive a Honda which has a camera and a radar. The camera is for lane assist from what I gathered and the radar for ACC and AEB. If I accelerate into traffic and get close to a car while accelerating, it will start flashing a warning light and if I still don't stop accelerating or braking, it will intervene, but if the other car accelerates it doesn't do anything. So the radar setup is quite well done and it gives very few false positives. The lane assist system is a bit bad though because once it identifies the lane markings it does not take into account potential hazards that want me to change a lane or exit it for a few seconds to avoid road hazard lights or something similar. The point I am trying to make is that there should be a high standard to what drives the AEB and it should not rely on cameras, which seems to be what automakers want to implement driving assisted features to save on more advanced tech. And somehow I don't think they're gonna pony up for high-speed cameras that can replace a radar at accuracy. Maybe the intention is good, but most likely the implementation will suck.
- anakaine 3y ago
  Alternatively, it should have a wider field of view and if nothing is obviously very wrong let the driver move the wheel around without intervention.

imp0cat 3y ago

Yes, *near* perfect is the correct word. Anecdotally, in a 2021 Hyundai, I do get random AEB warnings in the city mostly when merging into fast-flowing traffic. Thankfully it is possible to have the system set to beep only as slamming on the brakes while merging is an experience everyone wants to avoid. Also, it sometimes panics when coming to a stop on an incline with a car ahead. I guess it is unable to account for the fact that the car will stop by itself just because the road is going uphill?

hnick 3y ago
I'm not sure how exactly it works, but for my Hyundai at least it doesn't seem to be "you will hit this if you do nothing", the alerts generally pop up if I'm actively accelerating. Maybe if I got closer it'd kick in, I've just never heard the alarms when I'm already slowing down (but should be doing so faster).
- imp0cat 3y ago
  I know mine is camera-based. The car does not have adaptive cruise control, so no radar, just front parking sensors - but those are probably just used for the "the car ahead of you has started moving!" warning, which is the exact opposite of AEB.
  - hnick 3y ago
    Ah OK, in my car AEB and SCC ("Smart Cruise Control" as they call it) are the same sub-system - when one broke due to the no-input fail-safe, so did the other. The radar is behind the badge and works in tandem with the camera I believe.
  - evdoks 3y ago
    By the way, no adaptive cruise control does not always mean that there is no radar. Some car still keep the radar and use it for AEB, but have ACC disabled I’d you do not purchase it when configuring the car.

anakaine 3y ago

Driving a Hyundai hire in Sydney with lane keep and aeb was the thing that eventually convinced me to upgrade the 4x4 to something with these features. Driving a hire Subaru with the same features around Sydney was what convinced me to drive a few more and observe who had good implementations, and who poor. Recently upgraded to a Chinese ute. I've about the first 1000km driven now, and whilst it's occasionally made some mistakes, if my hands are on the wheel it's easy enough to just stay the course and it let's me do as I wish. I can also turn all the setting to off at the touch of a button and make that the default too. I quite enjoy having these features because they have been implemented well.

lloeki 3y ago

I have a Mazda too, I can confirm GP statement regarding lane assist... in many areas but not all: - when it works it works so well the car basically drives itself esp. when you throw cruise control into the mix (this includes auto coasting + breaking) - when it doesn't it's bouncing across the lane + applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking I did not have any issue with emergency braking (never triggered, any situation where it would have triggered got handled by the driver first), but I did have a few (light) phantom braking events in cruise control. Not related to lane assist control (uses a separate mechanism) but I did have issues with blind spot alert, it was randomly alerting regularly when no car was present. Mazda identified the cause as winter tyres throwing the sensors off. A software update is supposed to fix that but we disabled the feature so it'll be done on the next scheduled maintenance.

hnick 3y ago
> applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking It doesn't turn off when you indicate to change lanes? It does on the Hyundai.
- tssva 3y ago
  I have a Mazda and don't have any of the issues the commenter has including any type of resistance when changing lanes.
- astura 3y ago
  Mine does too (Volkswagen) but it's been my observation that most people don't indicate to change lanes.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    But I often see them used as an "apology blinker" (when they turn on the indicator after they've started to change lanes or turn). Makes me laugh every time. I mean, at that point, why bother with the signal at all?
- ics 3y ago

mistercheph 3y ago

Bad North American repurtation comes from dealer network afaik.

Grazester 3y ago
It came from cheap unreliable cars they made in the early 90's. Those things were through away vehicles. By the early 2000's they were just cheaply made(material wise) but reliability has improved vastly.