4 ms·

Weirdly I think this is not constructed, hunters are moderately heavy users of public lands and land rights are pretty important to that group Unless it's a hu

Weirdly I think this is not constructed, hunters are moderately heavy users of public lands and land rights are pretty important to that group Unless it's a hunting preserve (they do exist, plenty of buckhunting going on in Alabama) hunters are local and intensely aware of the power relationships. One really wishes to know: who is the guy with deep pockets that Eshelman upset and what are they beefing over, and how did he get the wholesome quartet of hunters to go along with him. The whole suit is about as organic as the Chatterley trial.

uxp 3y ago
> One really wishes to know: who is the guy with deep pockets that Eshelman upset and what are they beefing over, and how did he get the wholesome quartet of hunters to go along with him. What are you talking about? Access to public lands has been an ongoing fight for decades with people from the entire political spectrum having opinions about the matter. Whether that be rock climbers trying to access routes, or people who fish trying to access streams, to people like this who are trying to access public hunting land. Assuming that everyone trying to access public lands is some poor pleb is in bad taste. Companies like Patagonia have long supported more liberal access to public lands with millions in donations, as well as organizations like the NRA with their advocacy and financial support.
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  What are you talking about? I'm talking about the Gawker lawsuit bankrolled by Peter Thiel, and Thiel is on the record saying that you need a 7-figure sum to access the court system. He has to know.
  - ksenzee 3y ago
    a) Peter Thiel is not exactly an authority on the American justice system. He might be right that you need a 7-figure sum for the kind of hijinks he pulled with Gawker, but this isn't the same thing at all. b) FTFA: > Wyoming Backcountry Hunters and Anglers launched a fundraising campaign in 2021 to ensure the hunters, Smith, Bradly Cape, Phillip Yeomans and John Slowensky, could have their day in court.
jcrawfordor 3y ago
Hunting preserves are increasingly common throughout the west and are mainly where these disputes arise. Some of the largest landholders in the west, for example Ted Turner, are mostly in the business of buying cattle ranches and converting them to hunting preserves. I don't think this case is very constructed at all, as many similar disputes have played out in my region, but generally they don't make it to court... they end up either as hunters getting run off and not returning, or the BLM district supervisor sending nasty letters to get gates unlocked, or an argument mediated by the sheriff where everyone leaves unhappy. What's unusual about this case is that it has a very clear and well-documented set of facts that makes it an almost ideal test case for the issue of corner crossing, and both public land advocates (which range from the owner of OnX who is involved in this case to many other political lobbying organizations) and landowners looking to retain the ability to restrict access to their adjacent public land stand to benefit. The well-documented set of facts here are not that surprising as this is a well-known issue in hunting circles and there are quite a few people who document their means of land access very carefully in order to defend themselves in a situation such as this.
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  You still need someone with balls to be plaintiff and someone with money to fund the suit. It reeks of a constructed case, it's not the usual case of a hunter getting run off by private security or someone given the runaround by the sheriff, who knows whose side he is supposed to be on.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    Maybe because it is, I bet they more than once were miffed about the whole idea if the infinitely small point of contact between two checkerboard plots preventing them to pass from one parcel of public land to another, which is technically at zero distance from the first. I suppose they wanted to make a case to demonstrate the dubiousness of that norm, and successfully have made one. Kudos to them.
  - jethro_tell 3y ago
    The article says the defense was funded by local hunters, fishermen and their organizations via a fundraiser.
opello 3y ago
You should listen to the interview: https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-342-getting-busted-for-touching-air https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-342-getting... around 1:10:00 the hunters talk about how they found this place. I think you don't appreciate the hunter demographic and how much people will travel to enjoy the hobby. They're often not local, but frequently build relationships with the locals and landowners like you describe, and go back to the same places year after year.

uxp 3y ago

> One really wishes to know: who is the guy with deep pockets that Eshelman upset and what are they beefing over, and how did he get the wholesome quartet of hunters to go along with him. What are you talking about? Access to public lands has been an ongoing fight for decades with people from the entire political spectrum having opinions about the matter. Whether that be rock climbers trying to access routes, or people who fish trying to access streams, to people like this who are trying to access public hunting land. Assuming that everyone trying to access public lands is some poor pleb is in bad taste. Companies like Patagonia have long supported more liberal access to public lands with millions in donations, as well as organizations like the NRA with their advocacy and financial support.

HarryHirsch 3y ago
What are you talking about? I'm talking about the Gawker lawsuit bankrolled by Peter Thiel, and Thiel is on the record saying that you need a 7-figure sum to access the court system. He has to know.
- ksenzee 3y ago
  a) Peter Thiel is not exactly an authority on the American justice system. He might be right that you need a 7-figure sum for the kind of hijinks he pulled with Gawker, but this isn't the same thing at all. b) FTFA: > Wyoming Backcountry Hunters and Anglers launched a fundraising campaign in 2021 to ensure the hunters, Smith, Bradly Cape, Phillip Yeomans and John Slowensky, could have their day in court.

jcrawfordor 3y ago

Hunting preserves are increasingly common throughout the west and are mainly where these disputes arise. Some of the largest landholders in the west, for example Ted Turner, are mostly in the business of buying cattle ranches and converting them to hunting preserves. I don't think this case is very constructed at all, as many similar disputes have played out in my region, but generally they don't make it to court... they end up either as hunters getting run off and not returning, or the BLM district supervisor sending nasty letters to get gates unlocked, or an argument mediated by the sheriff where everyone leaves unhappy. What's unusual about this case is that it has a very clear and well-documented set of facts that makes it an almost ideal test case for the issue of corner crossing, and both public land advocates (which range from the owner of OnX who is involved in this case to many other political lobbying organizations) and landowners looking to retain the ability to restrict access to their adjacent public land stand to benefit. The well-documented set of facts here are not that surprising as this is a well-known issue in hunting circles and there are quite a few people who document their means of land access very carefully in order to defend themselves in a situation such as this.

HarryHirsch 3y ago
You still need someone with balls to be plaintiff and someone with money to fund the suit. It reeks of a constructed case, it's not the usual case of a hunter getting run off by private security or someone given the runaround by the sheriff, who knows whose side he is supposed to be on.
- nine_k 3y ago
  Maybe because it is, I bet they more than once were miffed about the whole idea if the infinitely small point of contact between two checkerboard plots preventing them to pass from one parcel of public land to another, which is technically at zero distance from the first. I suppose they wanted to make a case to demonstrate the dubiousness of that norm, and successfully have made one. Kudos to them.
- jethro_tell 3y ago
  The article says the defense was funded by local hunters, fishermen and their organizations via a fundraiser.

opello 3y ago

You should listen to the interview: https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-342-getting-busted-for-touching-air https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-342-getting... around 1:10:00 the hunters talk about how they found this place. I think you don't appreciate the hunter demographic and how much people will travel to enjoy the hobby. They're often not local, but frequently build relationships with the locals and landowners like you describe, and go back to the same places year after year.