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It's not exclusively a "gearhead" opinion to not want a system in your car that can violently take control away from you unexpectedly Statistics are meaningles

It's not exclusively a "gearhead" opinion to not want a system in your car that can violently take control away from you unexpectedly Statistics are meaningless to the individual. Sure, emergency braking might be safer across the board, but that means little compared to an individual who already drives safely without it.

maximinus_thrax 3y ago
> but that means little compared to an individual who already drives safely without it. https://udayton.edu/blogs/erma/2022/06/lakewobegon.php https://udayton.edu/blogs/erma/2022/06/lakewobegon.php My 'boomer' relatives refuse to wear a seatbelt, regardless of how many fines they've incurred, exactly because they already drive safely.
- dabluecaboose 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - enkid 3y ago
    You don't know how statistics work.
    - dabluecaboose 3y ago
      Yes, that was the point of the comment. That isn't how statistics work.
  - maximinus_thrax 3y ago
    Same reason a considerable percentage of smokers die of old age instead of heart attacks or cancers. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to start smoking.
ceejayoz 3y ago
> Statistics are meaningless to the individual. This is just blatantly untrue. > means little compared to an individual who already drives safely without it Until emergency breaking stops a bad driver from T-boning you in an intersection as they run a red light. “I’ll just drive safely” was the argument against seatbelts, airbags, and antilock brakes. Motorcycle helmets, too.
- hedora 3y ago
  Can current emergency braking systems realistically stop a t-bone accident? Sure, if it was equivalent in capability to a class 5 self driving car, it would see the light was red, and notice the partially occluded other car, then stop in time. But, with just a front facing radar? I don’t see how it would be able to do much. It would only have a few feet to stop.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Even a reduction in speed helps - 10 mph can make a significant difference in lethality - and sub in being rear-ended if you prefer. The point is even a perfect driver may benefit from safety devices in the hands of other drivers they encounter.
    - hallway_monitor 3y ago
      This is a good point, thank you. I don't think anyone here would argue against this feature if it was 100% accurate. However, mandating something that has many reports of erroneous activation seems like overreach.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        Defective airbags blew shrapnel in folks’ faces, too. Anecdotes are of limited value here; I’m sure you can find the occasional person who has been trapped in a car by a seat belt and burned to death. Policy needs data, not unfalsifiable claims of being a perfect driver hobbled by computer interference. The article notes: > A metanalysis in 2015 found a 38 percent decrease in collisions for vehicles that utilized such a system, for instance.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
I have two vehicles with this system and they have never “violently taken control”. In most situations, the system gives an audible alert while pretension the brakes. If you react within the alert window you retain full control with the benefit of firm brakes (y’all ever remember getting soft brakes?). I don’t even want to know what situations I’d need to be in for my vehicle to actually emergency brake, but I don’t want to find out. It seems like I’m already going to be hitting something anyways so any speed it can bleed off is better.
- pbazarnik 3y ago
  Same here: Honda CR-V 2020. It uses single lens (so not a stereoscopic vision) and radar. Never did it brake hard, only warning and few times brake pretension. It will occasionally give false positives on a street curving left with cars parked on the right side. Once it did warn on a highway most likely due to metal comb joint of the elevated road section. (I specifically looked at what could be the cause) The driver reaction within a time window is likely important factor in preventing the system to elevate. I have good reflexes and will put my feet slightly on the brake in such situations. Honda had a recall for an older AEB system 2017-2019 Accord and CRV: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/nhtsa-investigates-honda-unexpected-braking-complaints-a9281526240/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/nht...
- dabluecaboose 3y ago
  That's a fair contention: I've never personally driven a vehicle with such mechanism (perhaps owing to my economic inability to own such a device) I appreciate your informed opinion!

maximinus_thrax 3y ago

> but that means little compared to an individual who already drives safely without it. https://udayton.edu/blogs/erma/2022/06/lakewobegon.php https://udayton.edu/blogs/erma/2022/06/lakewobegon.php My 'boomer' relatives refuse to wear a seatbelt, regardless of how many fines they've incurred, exactly because they already drive safely.

dabluecaboose 3y ago
[flagged]
- enkid 3y ago
  You don't know how statistics work.
  - dabluecaboose 3y ago
    Yes, that was the point of the comment. That isn't how statistics work.
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago
  Same reason a considerable percentage of smokers die of old age instead of heart attacks or cancers. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to start smoking.

ceejayoz 3y ago

> Statistics are meaningless to the individual. This is just blatantly untrue. > means little compared to an individual who already drives safely without it Until emergency breaking stops a bad driver from T-boning you in an intersection as they run a red light. “I’ll just drive safely” was the argument against seatbelts, airbags, and antilock brakes. Motorcycle helmets, too.

hedora 3y ago
Can current emergency braking systems realistically stop a t-bone accident? Sure, if it was equivalent in capability to a class 5 self driving car, it would see the light was red, and notice the partially occluded other car, then stop in time. But, with just a front facing radar? I don’t see how it would be able to do much. It would only have a few feet to stop.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Even a reduction in speed helps - 10 mph can make a significant difference in lethality - and sub in being rear-ended if you prefer. The point is even a perfect driver may benefit from safety devices in the hands of other drivers they encounter.
  - hallway_monitor 3y ago
    This is a good point, thank you. I don't think anyone here would argue against this feature if it was 100% accurate. However, mandating something that has many reports of erroneous activation seems like overreach.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      Defective airbags blew shrapnel in folks’ faces, too. Anecdotes are of limited value here; I’m sure you can find the occasional person who has been trapped in a car by a seat belt and burned to death. Policy needs data, not unfalsifiable claims of being a perfect driver hobbled by computer interference. The article notes: > A metanalysis in 2015 found a 38 percent decrease in collisions for vehicles that utilized such a system, for instance.

SkyPuncher 3y ago

I have two vehicles with this system and they have never “violently taken control”. In most situations, the system gives an audible alert while pretension the brakes. If you react within the alert window you retain full control with the benefit of firm brakes (y’all ever remember getting soft brakes?). I don’t even want to know what situations I’d need to be in for my vehicle to actually emergency brake, but I don’t want to find out. It seems like I’m already going to be hitting something anyways so any speed it can bleed off is better.

pbazarnik 3y ago
Same here: Honda CR-V 2020. It uses single lens (so not a stereoscopic vision) and radar. Never did it brake hard, only warning and few times brake pretension. It will occasionally give false positives on a street curving left with cars parked on the right side. Once it did warn on a highway most likely due to metal comb joint of the elevated road section. (I specifically looked at what could be the cause) The driver reaction within a time window is likely important factor in preventing the system to elevate. I have good reflexes and will put my feet slightly on the brake in such situations. Honda had a recall for an older AEB system 2017-2019 Accord and CRV: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/nhtsa-investigates-honda-unexpected-braking-complaints-a9281526240/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/nht...
dabluecaboose 3y ago
That's a fair contention: I've never personally driven a vehicle with such mechanism (perhaps owing to my economic inability to own such a device) I appreciate your informed opinion!