5 ms·

I don't really think they have any secret sauce that AAA studios don't have, the explanation is just that they've continued work on the game after release. For

I don't really think they have any secret sauce that AAA studios don't have, the explanation is just that they've continued work on the game after release. For any other AAA game, nearly all the developers pivot to working on the next project after release so you don't see as substantial updates.

mewse-hn 3y ago
Or they get canned
brucethemoose2 3y ago
I disagree. Hello games has ~40 employees, apparently up from ~20 years ago. 343 has over 500 employees... maybe 750? I am not sure. But they spent at least an order of magnitude more manhours on Halo Infinite (not even counting help from other Microsoft branches and carryover work from 3 previous Halo games), and just look at how Infinite ended up compared to NMS.
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  Seems about right. Software dev scales very poorly with number of devs. Optimum team size is like 3-4.
  - ricardobayes 3y ago
    Definitely, you can bring the stars down with 4 well-managed and motivated full time-devs.
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    I guess this is true. Seems like the game dev sweetspot is "AA" sized, like Hello Games, Coffee Stain, maybe Obsidian... its where economies of scale really kick in, but beyond that studios quickly hit all sorts of scaling issues.
- badlucklottery 3y ago
  I worked in the games industry for a short amount of time and have a few friends still in it (less and less as the years go by) so that's what I'm basing this opinion on. Anyway, a big part of the efficiency issues with AAA studios is they generally get fully or close to fully underway on a design that mostly goes into the trash before launch. So they aren't really developing one game, they're developing several with varying amounts of overlap and completeness. The development of Doom Eternal is a high-profile (and very successful) example of this. This is also why the industry is unfortunately fueled on crunch: sure it took 4+ years to deliver the final product but much of the final game shaped up in the last 6-12 months. It's a miracle more games don't need year+ delays. From what I've seen, indie studios tend to spend a much larger percentage of the development cycle prototyping and iterating before going into full production. They do this because they can (less overhead from idle staff) and because have to (they can't afford to spend years spinning their wheels). It's much more efficient but it also limits scope (which has some big downsides).
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    Interesting. I have read this happens and doesn't always work out (like with Mass Effect Andromeda), but I didn't know it was so common. I think many "AA" studios and larger indies are getting around this conundrum with early access. They commit to a working skeleton but still get to prototype features, they get a revenue stream from their own testers to sustain them, and they get a "free" relaunch from a full launch on their own time.
armchairhacker 3y ago
Good code which you don’t just want to throw away? It’s a stereotype that game developers don’t usually write good code. I’m not sure how accurate this really is, but I bet a lot of games get released and then the devs are like “nope, not touching that again” (except for easy bugfixes)

mewse-hn 3y ago

Or they get canned

brucethemoose2 3y ago

I disagree. Hello games has ~40 employees, apparently up from ~20 years ago. 343 has over 500 employees... maybe 750? I am not sure. But they spent at least an order of magnitude more manhours on Halo Infinite (not even counting help from other Microsoft branches and carryover work from 3 previous Halo games), and just look at how Infinite ended up compared to NMS.

marginalia_nu 3y ago
Seems about right. Software dev scales very poorly with number of devs. Optimum team size is like 3-4.
- ricardobayes 3y ago
  Definitely, you can bring the stars down with 4 well-managed and motivated full time-devs.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  I guess this is true. Seems like the game dev sweetspot is "AA" sized, like Hello Games, Coffee Stain, maybe Obsidian... its where economies of scale really kick in, but beyond that studios quickly hit all sorts of scaling issues.
badlucklottery 3y ago
I worked in the games industry for a short amount of time and have a few friends still in it (less and less as the years go by) so that's what I'm basing this opinion on. Anyway, a big part of the efficiency issues with AAA studios is they generally get fully or close to fully underway on a design that mostly goes into the trash before launch. So they aren't really developing one game, they're developing several with varying amounts of overlap and completeness. The development of Doom Eternal is a high-profile (and very successful) example of this. This is also why the industry is unfortunately fueled on crunch: sure it took 4+ years to deliver the final product but much of the final game shaped up in the last 6-12 months. It's a miracle more games don't need year+ delays. From what I've seen, indie studios tend to spend a much larger percentage of the development cycle prototyping and iterating before going into full production. They do this because they can (less overhead from idle staff) and because have to (they can't afford to spend years spinning their wheels). It's much more efficient but it also limits scope (which has some big downsides).
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  Interesting. I have read this happens and doesn't always work out (like with Mass Effect Andromeda), but I didn't know it was so common. I think many "AA" studios and larger indies are getting around this conundrum with early access. They commit to a working skeleton but still get to prototype features, they get a revenue stream from their own testers to sustain them, and they get a "free" relaunch from a full launch on their own time.

armchairhacker 3y ago

Good code which you don’t just want to throw away? It’s a stereotype that game developers don’t usually write good code. I’m not sure how accurate this really is, but I bet a lot of games get released and then the devs are like “nope, not touching that again” (except for easy bugfixes)