4 ms·

Yup. As far as the first guy goes, the company's action was proportionate: forcing him to pay for the copy, and firing him for breaching the company's trust. A

Yup. As far as the first guy goes, the company's action was proportionate: forcing him to pay for the copy, and firing him for breaching the company's trust. A criminal charge would have ruined his life, and for no gain to the company, or (in my opinion) to the rest of society.

barbazoo 3y ago
> A criminal charge would have ruined his life, and for no gain to the company I'm not sure if that's being considered at all, recent example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36127800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36127800
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Yea lmao people with power protect and grow it, they don’t become public servants.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
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chmod775 3y ago
>A criminal charge would have ruined his life The typical punishment for petty theft in Japan is having to pay for the item and a slap on the wrist. If you show remorse, settle with the victim, and aren't a repeat offender, prosecutors in Japan will pretty much never take it to a formal trial. Amazon gets no say in this: If prosecutors aren't interested, there won't be a trial. It's their exclusive authority. >According to Japanese criminal procedure article 248, a prosecutor may choose not to prosecute when prosecution is deemed unnecessary considering the character, age, and background of the offender, the severity of the offense, and the circumstances following the offense.[1] [1]: https://www.criminaldefensejapan.com/post/how-much-does-it-cost-to-retain-a-criminal-defense-lawyer-in-japan-shoplifting-case https://www.criminaldefensejapan.com/post/how-much-does-it-c...
- fennecfoxy 3y ago
  Japan has a 99% conviction rate: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572 If prosecutors are sure that they have enough "evidence" or social bias (especially for people with criminal records) then they will relentlessly pursue a defendant like terminators. It's not really a haven for justice.
  - juliusgeo 3y ago
    The US federal government has a similarly high conviction rate, especially considering the number of plea deals (90% of defendants plead guilty). https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/11/only-2-of-federal-criminal-defendants-go-to-trial-and-most-who-do-are-found-guilty/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/11/only-2-of.... I went to Wikipedia to find more information and it seems that your characterization of it as very unjust is a common misconception: > According to Bruce Aronson of New York University School of Law, Japan's conviction rate is misleading because it is the rate at which defendants admit guilt in the cases they are charged with. According to him, if the method of calculating the conviction rate in Japan is applied to the United States, the conviction rate of federal defendants in the United States in 2018 was also over 99%. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_J...
    - fennecfoxy 3y ago
      I'm not American and I definitely do not think America is a haven for justice either, ha ha.
kleiba 3y ago
What I don't quite understand: they made him pay for the copy and return said copy?!
- GloriousKoji 3y ago
  They're making him return and pay for the merchandise he broke and stole.
- jonny_eh 3y ago
  Law enforcement has gone TOO far!
- xingped 3y ago
  Maybe it would fall under the same consideration as damaging an item in a shop? But then I suppose you would have the choice to take it home. Who knows, Japan does things different.
  - Volundr 3y ago
    I think it makes sense. If the penalty for stealing is just paying for the item there's no incentive not to try it. Worst case it's like you bought the item. Pay for it and return it, there's a downside while still keeping it a slap on the wrist.
phonon 3y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20120512122454/http://www.bigdaikon.com/mystory-20030310.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20120512122454/http://www.bigdai...

barbazoo 3y ago

> A criminal charge would have ruined his life, and for no gain to the company I'm not sure if that's being considered at all, recent example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36127800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36127800

wahnfrieden 3y ago
Yea lmao people with power protect and grow it, they don’t become public servants.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

chmod775 3y ago

>A criminal charge would have ruined his life The typical punishment for petty theft in Japan is having to pay for the item and a slap on the wrist. If you show remorse, settle with the victim, and aren't a repeat offender, prosecutors in Japan will pretty much never take it to a formal trial. Amazon gets no say in this: If prosecutors aren't interested, there won't be a trial. It's their exclusive authority. >According to Japanese criminal procedure article 248, a prosecutor may choose not to prosecute when prosecution is deemed unnecessary considering the character, age, and background of the offender, the severity of the offense, and the circumstances following the offense.[1] [1]: https://www.criminaldefensejapan.com/post/how-much-does-it-cost-to-retain-a-criminal-defense-lawyer-in-japan-shoplifting-case https://www.criminaldefensejapan.com/post/how-much-does-it-c...

fennecfoxy 3y ago
Japan has a 99% conviction rate: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572 If prosecutors are sure that they have enough "evidence" or social bias (especially for people with criminal records) then they will relentlessly pursue a defendant like terminators. It's not really a haven for justice.
- juliusgeo 3y ago
  The US federal government has a similarly high conviction rate, especially considering the number of plea deals (90% of defendants plead guilty). https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/11/only-2-of-federal-criminal-defendants-go-to-trial-and-most-who-do-are-found-guilty/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/06/11/only-2-of.... I went to Wikipedia to find more information and it seems that your characterization of it as very unjust is a common misconception: > According to Bruce Aronson of New York University School of Law, Japan's conviction rate is misleading because it is the rate at which defendants admit guilt in the cases they are charged with. According to him, if the method of calculating the conviction rate in Japan is applied to the United States, the conviction rate of federal defendants in the United States in 2018 was also over 99%. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_J...
  - fennecfoxy 3y ago
    I'm not American and I definitely do not think America is a haven for justice either, ha ha.

kleiba 3y ago

What I don't quite understand: they made him pay for the copy and return said copy?!

GloriousKoji 3y ago
They're making him return and pay for the merchandise he broke and stole.
jonny_eh 3y ago
Law enforcement has gone TOO far!
xingped 3y ago
Maybe it would fall under the same consideration as damaging an item in a shop? But then I suppose you would have the choice to take it home. Who knows, Japan does things different.
- Volundr 3y ago
  I think it makes sense. If the penalty for stealing is just paying for the item there's no incentive not to try it. Worst case it's like you bought the item. Pay for it and return it, there's a downside while still keeping it a slap on the wrist.

phonon 3y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20120512122454/http://www.bigdaikon.com/mystory-20030310.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20120512122454/http://www.bigdai...