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From another perspective, My views were considered left in the early 2000s. Now that our culture and many aspects of our government has shifted further and fur

From another perspective, My views were considered left in the early 2000s. Now that our culture and many aspects of our government has shifted further and further to the left in the past couple of years, my views are considered more right-wing.

foxyv 3y ago
What I would consider "Left" is so far from what conservatives call leftists right now. Even the democrats are essentially conservative now. No one even wants to touch the boat, much less rock it. Liberals have become conservatives, conservatives have become reactionaries. It's brutal for leftists... I don't know why you think that our government has shifted left. Unions are being strangled, rights are being revoked, cost of living for necessities is going up, social programs are being cut off, and everything left is being destroyed piece by piece. The only possible left shift is maybe some social issues. The days of the trusts and robber barons seem to be coming back.
- johnny99k 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - avgDev 3y ago
    In one comment you "don't want to discuss" politics but yet you are throwing loaded statement "authoritarian left" and are unwilling to back up such claims or discuss it because you will be attacked. What is the point?
    - johnny99k 3y ago
      Again, I'm not going to be goaded into discourse only to be digitally shouted down via a massive downvote. This already should say a lot about the current state of our culture (and politics).
      - foxyv 3y ago
        > I am not going to be goaded into supporting my claims!
  - foxyv 3y ago
    Sorry Comrade, I didn't know that the authoritarian left had taken over. You will be re-assigned to work in Ohio as a bread maker tomorrow. Please say goodbye to your family and pack your bags. The worker train will be waiting at the station at 2PM tomorrow. Good luck! Long live the great leader and the workers revolution! Edit: It has been brought to my attention that the workers revolution has not occurred and we are ruled by capitalist dogs. Please disregard the above. Also, there is no train station because it was bulldozed to make way for the expansion of highway 19257. Edit 2: Apparently bread was banned in Ohio because someone put a rainbow flag on it. Please disregard bread. Go woke go broke. Edit 3: Please do not shoot the rainbow bread without making sure that the Bug Light beers you are using for a backstop is not in front of a preschool. I repeat, please stop shooting schools.
- invalidOrTaken 3y ago
  Socially things have definitely moved left. Pick $SEX_THING, consider its status now relative to 10/20/30 years ago and it should be pretty obvious. Economically it's...weird, and you could argue that it hasn't really made leftists or rightists happy. That Nikon link the other day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36131319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36131319) --- that doesn't seem to be what White Fascists For Swole America or Free Citizens of Stolen Native Land want. Corporatist is how I'd describe the econ policies of...since I can remember.
  - foxyv 3y ago
    I agree that a lot of progress has been made with regards to sexuality. I think mostly because the sex things didn't threaten the status quo in any significant way. It was a useful distraction from the actual crimes being committed. Sub-prime mortgages, military contracts, offshoring, selling secrets, taking money from hostile foreign powers, regulating away competition, not enforcing anti-trust laws, protecting friends from the law, etc... But what substantive changes have we made progress in on the left in the last 30 years that required even the smallest sacrifice on the part of the elite? Health care reform? Still private and more expensive than ever. Affordable housing? Ha! Improved working conditions? Nope. Expanding social programs? Nope, even less entitlements. Decreasing retirement age? Bringing equity to oppressed minorities? Reducing imprisonment?
snapcaster 3y ago
Culture i can grant you (but we probably disagree on the importance of a lot of that), but what parts of the government have become "more left"? Can you point to specific policies?
- johnny99k 3y ago
  Sorry, I'm not going to get into a war about which policies are considered left/not left.
  - snapcaster 3y ago
    Fair, I understand these are hard to talk about without getting attacked. I'm legit curious, when I read your comment I couldn't think of a single "left" thing the government had done recently outside of covid relief payments or student loan stuff but that's not really enough to make for a historical trend
    - bluefirebrand 3y ago
      > I'm legit curious, when I read your comment I couldn't think of a single "left" thing the government had done recently Depends on which governments you're talking about but here's some things I think are becoming more commonplace and are generally considered Left or Progressive policies * Banning single use plastics * Investing in renewable energy * Running UBI trials * Carbon taxes * Investing in safe injection sites * Any number of pro-LGBTQ policies * High Immigration numbers / refugee support Of course these vary regionally wildly, and in many places in the USA are actually being reversed instead of progressing. But I think in many places outside of the USA these types of policies are become much more common
      - snapcaster 3y ago
        Good point I was implicitly fixating on USA. in the USA it feels like none of those things are happening outside of Portland and SF edit: immigration is an interesting one. Leftists want it for a variety of reasons, and usually right-leaning uber-capitalists want it to lower wages
acuozzo 3y ago
> I can't believe you are even being serious right now. I should have also specified. We are now being ruled by the authoritarian left, which is different than the classical left. I'm replying to this here since the comment itself is flagged and dead. Out of curiosity: What makes you think this way? The only differences I see among the candidates are within the realm of social issues. Moderate left-leaning economic policies (e.g., 90%+ capital gains tax and the reinstatement of the pre-1980s welfare system) aren't anywhere to be found among the current Democratic politicians. True leftist policies would be considered pipe-dreams by even Bernie Sanders. Is it possible that your views in the early 2000s weren't truly "Left", but just like... "left-leaning on social issues"?
- linksnapzz 3y ago
  Government confiscation of most of the money you’d make selling your home is…a moderate-left policy? I think I see the problem here…
  - acuozzo 3y ago
    Any sensible writing of the policy would come with reasonable bounds in order to not hurt citizens surviving primarily on time & skill capital. The clear targets of such a policy would still be filthy rich with only 10% gains. I'd wager that most left-leaning persons would be in favor of reducing the entirety of the capital class to "rich, but not rich enough to control the government or buy entire countries". If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable. A policy like this would be the first step in applying a strong band-pass filter to our "income inequality"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcapital distribution problem. > I think I see the problem here… I mean, shit, it's not a forced redistribution policy like what's championed on the left proper. Do you know what Leftists actually support or are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief?
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      >Any sensible writing of the policy would come with reasonable bounds Oh, so we presume that our left policymakers are sensible and reasonable? There's a joke about economists where the punchline is "assume a can opener..." >If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable. A supermajority of Labrador Retrievers in my household believe that a eating a 12oz can of Crisco from the pantry is a fine moderate lunch, but that eating the 2lb can would be unreasonable. >are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief? The Old Left && its economic policy prescriptions have been a dead letter in the US since the '90s. The cultural focus is more useful to peel off blocs who might be inclined to vote, as an afterthought, for a redistributive economic policy.

foxyv 3y ago

What I would consider "Left" is so far from what conservatives call leftists right now. Even the democrats are essentially conservative now. No one even wants to touch the boat, much less rock it. Liberals have become conservatives, conservatives have become reactionaries. It's brutal for leftists... I don't know why you think that our government has shifted left. Unions are being strangled, rights are being revoked, cost of living for necessities is going up, social programs are being cut off, and everything left is being destroyed piece by piece. The only possible left shift is maybe some social issues. The days of the trusts and robber barons seem to be coming back.

johnny99k 3y ago
[flagged]
- avgDev 3y ago
  In one comment you "don't want to discuss" politics but yet you are throwing loaded statement "authoritarian left" and are unwilling to back up such claims or discuss it because you will be attacked. What is the point?
  - johnny99k 3y ago
    Again, I'm not going to be goaded into discourse only to be digitally shouted down via a massive downvote. This already should say a lot about the current state of our culture (and politics).
    - foxyv 3y ago
      > I am not going to be goaded into supporting my claims!
- foxyv 3y ago
  Sorry Comrade, I didn't know that the authoritarian left had taken over. You will be re-assigned to work in Ohio as a bread maker tomorrow. Please say goodbye to your family and pack your bags. The worker train will be waiting at the station at 2PM tomorrow. Good luck! Long live the great leader and the workers revolution! Edit: It has been brought to my attention that the workers revolution has not occurred and we are ruled by capitalist dogs. Please disregard the above. Also, there is no train station because it was bulldozed to make way for the expansion of highway 19257. Edit 2: Apparently bread was banned in Ohio because someone put a rainbow flag on it. Please disregard bread. Go woke go broke. Edit 3: Please do not shoot the rainbow bread without making sure that the Bug Light beers you are using for a backstop is not in front of a preschool. I repeat, please stop shooting schools.
invalidOrTaken 3y ago
Socially things have definitely moved left. Pick $SEX_THING, consider its status now relative to 10/20/30 years ago and it should be pretty obvious. Economically it's...weird, and you could argue that it hasn't really made leftists or rightists happy. That Nikon link the other day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36131319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36131319) --- that doesn't seem to be what White Fascists For Swole America or Free Citizens of Stolen Native Land want. Corporatist is how I'd describe the econ policies of...since I can remember.
- foxyv 3y ago
  I agree that a lot of progress has been made with regards to sexuality. I think mostly because the sex things didn't threaten the status quo in any significant way. It was a useful distraction from the actual crimes being committed. Sub-prime mortgages, military contracts, offshoring, selling secrets, taking money from hostile foreign powers, regulating away competition, not enforcing anti-trust laws, protecting friends from the law, etc... But what substantive changes have we made progress in on the left in the last 30 years that required even the smallest sacrifice on the part of the elite? Health care reform? Still private and more expensive than ever. Affordable housing? Ha! Improved working conditions? Nope. Expanding social programs? Nope, even less entitlements. Decreasing retirement age? Bringing equity to oppressed minorities? Reducing imprisonment?

snapcaster 3y ago

Culture i can grant you (but we probably disagree on the importance of a lot of that), but what parts of the government have become "more left"? Can you point to specific policies?

johnny99k 3y ago
Sorry, I'm not going to get into a war about which policies are considered left/not left.
- snapcaster 3y ago
  Fair, I understand these are hard to talk about without getting attacked. I'm legit curious, when I read your comment I couldn't think of a single "left" thing the government had done recently outside of covid relief payments or student loan stuff but that's not really enough to make for a historical trend
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    > I'm legit curious, when I read your comment I couldn't think of a single "left" thing the government had done recently Depends on which governments you're talking about but here's some things I think are becoming more commonplace and are generally considered Left or Progressive policies * Banning single use plastics * Investing in renewable energy * Running UBI trials * Carbon taxes * Investing in safe injection sites * Any number of pro-LGBTQ policies * High Immigration numbers / refugee support Of course these vary regionally wildly, and in many places in the USA are actually being reversed instead of progressing. But I think in many places outside of the USA these types of policies are become much more common
    - snapcaster 3y ago
      Good point I was implicitly fixating on USA. in the USA it feels like none of those things are happening outside of Portland and SF edit: immigration is an interesting one. Leftists want it for a variety of reasons, and usually right-leaning uber-capitalists want it to lower wages

acuozzo 3y ago

> I can't believe you are even being serious right now. I should have also specified. We are now being ruled by the authoritarian left, which is different than the classical left. I'm replying to this here since the comment itself is flagged and dead. Out of curiosity: What makes you think this way? The only differences I see among the candidates are within the realm of social issues. Moderate left-leaning economic policies (e.g., 90%+ capital gains tax and the reinstatement of the pre-1980s welfare system) aren't anywhere to be found among the current Democratic politicians. True leftist policies would be considered pipe-dreams by even Bernie Sanders. Is it possible that your views in the early 2000s weren't truly "Left", but just like... "left-leaning on social issues"?

linksnapzz 3y ago
Government confiscation of most of the money you’d make selling your home is…a moderate-left policy? I think I see the problem here…
- acuozzo 3y ago
  Any sensible writing of the policy would come with reasonable bounds in order to not hurt citizens surviving primarily on time & skill capital. The clear targets of such a policy would still be filthy rich with only 10% gains. I'd wager that most left-leaning persons would be in favor of reducing the entirety of the capital class to "rich, but not rich enough to control the government or buy entire countries". If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable. A policy like this would be the first step in applying a strong band-pass filter to our "income inequality"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcapital distribution problem. > I think I see the problem here… I mean, shit, it's not a forced redistribution policy like what's championed on the left proper. Do you know what Leftists actually support or are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief?
  - linksnapzz 3y ago
    >Any sensible writing of the policy would come with reasonable bounds Oh, so we presume that our left policymakers are sensible and reasonable? There's a joke about economists where the punchline is "assume a can opener..." >If most would be in favor of it, then referring to it as a moderate policy is reasonable. A supermajority of Labrador Retrievers in my household believe that a eating a 12oz can of Crisco from the pantry is a fine moderate lunch, but that eating the 2lb can would be unreasonable. >are you under the belief that American Liberals are Leftist and that the left is all about flags, gender identity, and student loan debt relief? The Old Left && its economic policy prescriptions have been a dead letter in the US since the '90s. The cultural focus is more useful to peel off blocs who might be inclined to vote, as an afterthought, for a redistributive economic policy.