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Well, I equally distrust American, Ukrainian and Russian governments. All of them showed themselves as serial liars just like lots of other governments. When t

by gdy 3y ago

Well, I equally distrust American, Ukrainian and Russian governments. All of them showed themselves as serial liars just like lots of other governments. When two governments give mutually exclusive statements, you can't just pick one country and say this one is always lying because that would mean that you think that another habitual liar is always telling the truth. Or you can, but that just makes you a russophobe.

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
> I equally distrust American, Ukrainian and Russian governments. given such a false equivalence, and even more whataboutism, it is then good that that opinion is not the opinion of most countries in the world (by UN vote) after all, fewer than 3% of countries, representing fewer than 3% of people in the world, were willing to go on record saying they trust russia's claims and excuses when they said the same thing > When two governments give mutually exclusive statements, you can't just pick one country and say this one is always lying I didn't say they're always lying, I pointed out that's simply the default state until russia PROVES its claims. can we do that? it depends: is one of them russia, a country with a long history of lying more often than telling the truth on matters such as this? if so, then you totally can treat it as the default, because again, and for the third time: X being dishonest doesn't make russia honest, only russia being honest makes russia honest meanwhile, you can't just ignore russia's dishonesty by resorting to whataboutism and finger pointing and 'but america/Ukraine/the west...': you must address russia's dishonesty directly. > that just makes you a russophobe does it though? That doesn't seem to actually be the case. indeed, calling the world's totally normal reaction to russia's history of dishonesty "russophobia" seems a little defensive and russophilic
- gdy 3y ago
  Speaking of the U.N. votes. Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of nazism. Can you guess which countries? Right. The Ukraine and the US.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of Nazism. 51 in the most recent iteration of Russia’s annual hollow ritual, that has gotten extra hollow as it has become the main current implementor of exactly the things for which the Nazis are generally condemned, from aggressive war to genocide: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/why-france-and-51-other-countries-voted-against-the-un-resolution-condemning-nazism_6003471_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/w...
    - gdy 3y ago
      "annual hollow ritual" What exactly makes it hollow? "to genocide" Now this was hollow. Or do you call war crimes perpetrated in Afghanistan by the US and its allies [0][1] a genocide too? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO_and_allies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO...
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        Even more whataboutism to get back on topic: russian soldiers have been found by UN war crimes investigators to have raped, tortured, and murdered men, women, and children as young as 4, in areas of Ukraine russia controls[0] (this child rape by russians is in addition to genociding Ukrainians in general -- and I'm not referring to russian deportation of Crimean Tatars [1], or russian killing of millions of Ukrainians in the Holodomor [2]) [0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tort... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
        gdy 3y ago
        "children as young as 4" This reminds me of something [0]. "In her testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, remove the incubators and leave the babies to die." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

by gdy 3y ago

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago

> I equally distrust American, Ukrainian and Russian governments. given such a false equivalence, and even more whataboutism, it is then good that that opinion is not the opinion of most countries in the world (by UN vote) after all, fewer than 3% of countries, representing fewer than 3% of people in the world, were willing to go on record saying they trust russia's claims and excuses when they said the same thing > When two governments give mutually exclusive statements, you can't just pick one country and say this one is always lying I didn't say they're always lying, I pointed out that's simply the default state until russia PROVES its claims. can we do that? it depends: is one of them russia, a country with a long history of lying more often than telling the truth on matters such as this? if so, then you totally can treat it as the default, because again, and for the third time: X being dishonest doesn't make russia honest, only russia being honest makes russia honest meanwhile, you can't just ignore russia's dishonesty by resorting to whataboutism and finger pointing and 'but america/Ukraine/the west...': you must address russia's dishonesty directly. > that just makes you a russophobe does it though? That doesn't seem to actually be the case. indeed, calling the world's totally normal reaction to russia's history of dishonesty "russophobia" seems a little defensive and russophilic

gdy 3y ago
Speaking of the U.N. votes. Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of nazism. Can you guess which countries? Right. The Ukraine and the US.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Only two countries voted against the Russia-proposed resolution condemning rehabilitation of Nazism. 51 in the most recent iteration of Russia’s annual hollow ritual, that has gotten extra hollow as it has become the main current implementor of exactly the things for which the Nazis are generally condemned, from aggressive war to genocide: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/why-france-and-51-other-countries-voted-against-the-un-resolution-condemning-nazism_6003471_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2022/11/09/w...
  - gdy 3y ago
    "annual hollow ritual" What exactly makes it hollow? "to genocide" Now this was hollow. Or do you call war crimes perpetrated in Afghanistan by the US and its allies [0][1] a genocide too? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brereton_Report [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO_and_allies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_Afghanistan#NATO...
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      Even more whataboutism to get back on topic: russian soldiers have been found by UN war crimes investigators to have raped, tortured, and murdered men, women, and children as young as 4, in areas of Ukraine russia controls[0] (this child rape by russians is in addition to genociding Ukrainians in general -- and I'm not referring to russian deportation of Crimean Tatars [1], or russian killing of millions of Ukrainians in the Holodomor [2]) [0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tort... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
      - gdy 3y ago
        "children as young as 4" This reminds me of something [0]. "In her testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, remove the incubators and leave the babies to die." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony