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> It will never happen. We can make it happen. It's just a legislative change away.

zx8080 3y ago
Legislation is a function of money via lobbying. So law is not gonna change, unless someone wants to spend enough money to make troubles for others. And enough money means "more than others". Making money is "expensive", by the way, if doing so responsible. Like, paying for nature and health damage. This brings in an interesting dilemma. Lobbying for such a legislation change would most probably damage the initiator.
- Taywee 3y ago
  There has been legislation that wasn't bought. There has been legislation that just had huge public support without major industry lobbying. Lobbying is effective, but it's reductive and dishonest to pretend that it's the only way to make legislative change.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    So what's prevented us from passing the laws we'd need to fix this? Yes, in the past the people have managed to make some changes, but none of that prevented this. We managed to get regulatory agencies which should have, but they are either toothless or run by the same industries they are supposed to oversee. What was the last time legislation was voted on that caused the collapse of one of the largest corporations in the world? When was the last time a corporation that poisoned a massive number of people was held truly accountable and the victims were actually made whole? Maybe you still think we have the power to make those kinds of changes, but what's your evidence for that?
autoexec 3y ago
If we could make it happen then why hasn't it happened? We are told that we can make these kinds of changes, and we have a system that makes it theoretically possible, but in practice, the people are powerless. Occasionally we've found ways to overcome the obstacles put in place to prevent meaningful change, but over a period of centuries the system has been carefully manipulated to eliminate those opportunities. We are plainly incapable of passing the legislation we'd need to fix this situation. Even if we somehow did manage to get the laws passed (which we can't) they'd be quickly overturned or worked around. We fought like hell to get regulatory agencies that were created to protect us from exactly the kinds of biological and ecological harms we suffer under yet they've all been captured by industry or made toothless. Legalized bribery, a largely ignorant and uneducated public, and a broken legal system all conspire to protect profits over people and nothing suggests meaningful change is possible, let alone likely.

Legislation is a function of money via lobbying. So law is not gonna change, unless someone wants to spend enough money to make troubles for others. And enough money means "more than others". Making money is "expensive", by the way, if doing so responsible. Like, paying for nature and health damage. This brings in an interesting dilemma. Lobbying for such a legislation change would most probably damage the initiator.

Taywee 3y ago
There has been legislation that wasn't bought. There has been legislation that just had huge public support without major industry lobbying. Lobbying is effective, but it's reductive and dishonest to pretend that it's the only way to make legislative change.
- autoexec 3y ago
  So what's prevented us from passing the laws we'd need to fix this? Yes, in the past the people have managed to make some changes, but none of that prevented this. We managed to get regulatory agencies which should have, but they are either toothless or run by the same industries they are supposed to oversee. What was the last time legislation was voted on that caused the collapse of one of the largest corporations in the world? When was the last time a corporation that poisoned a massive number of people was held truly accountable and the victims were actually made whole? Maybe you still think we have the power to make those kinds of changes, but what's your evidence for that?

autoexec 3y ago

If we could make it happen then why hasn't it happened? We are told that we can make these kinds of changes, and we have a system that makes it theoretically possible, but in practice, the people are powerless. Occasionally we've found ways to overcome the obstacles put in place to prevent meaningful change, but over a period of centuries the system has been carefully manipulated to eliminate those opportunities. We are plainly incapable of passing the legislation we'd need to fix this situation. Even if we somehow did manage to get the laws passed (which we can't) they'd be quickly overturned or worked around. We fought like hell to get regulatory agencies that were created to protect us from exactly the kinds of biological and ecological harms we suffer under yet they've all been captured by industry or made toothless. Legalized bribery, a largely ignorant and uneducated public, and a broken legal system all conspire to protect profits over people and nothing suggests meaningful change is possible, let alone likely.