4 ms·

UK/AU here. It used to be different, but the increasing militarisation of police in both the UK and Australia is apparent. The UK police are still unarmed, wit

UK/AU here. It used to be different, but the increasing militarisation of police in both the UK and Australia is apparent. The UK police are still unarmed, with armed response units that respond to any situation involving (or potentially involving) guns. Australian police are armed, and there's definitely a shift in attitude from that (though Aussies are generally have a more authoritarian outlook than Brits, so it may just be that). The UK is fast turning into a fascist state [0] and the police there are being given new powers to deal with protests [1]. Australian police are always pleading for more powers, and already have more then they need (imho). I was explaining to an American recently about Peelian Principles, and the idea that the police are just normal citizens who are employed to deal with crime and order blew his mind. I think the Peel attitude still resonates with both UK and Aus citizens, but I'm not so sure it's still the guiding principle of either police force. [0] https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/05/the-twilight-of-freedom/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/05/the-twilight... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Order_Act_2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Order_Act_2023

Animats 3y ago
> I was explaining to an American recently about Peelian Principles, and the idea that the police are just normal citizens who are employed to deal with crime and order blew his mind. Right. The classic legal view of police power is that the only extra authority police have is the authority to arrest on suspicion. Anyone has the authority to arrest if they witness a felony. This worked in the UK until the second half of the 19th century, before handguns were common. A group of citizens could detain a crook. See "Hue and cry". (Handguns didn't work very well until the second half of the 19th century, with the development of all-metal cartridges and revolvers. Handguns before that were single shot, high-maintenance, rather fussy to use, and often misfired. Most criminals used reliable knives or clubs.)
crimsoneer 3y ago
Honestly, I think "fast turning into a fascist state" is... a bit strong. Yes, the government is passing laws that reduce the threshold for protest to be stopped, but we still have free elections and stuff.
- marcus_holmes 3y ago
  I was quoting Craig Murray, kinda. I remember the Poll Tax riots, and how they affected the decision on that policy. Real, substantive, change to the government's thinking based on public protest. That couldn't happen today because of the change in laws - the protests would be stopped before they ever started, and wouldn't turn into riots (in part because police tactics have changed and they no longer try to turn protests into riots). I'm a huge optimist about the future. I believe the world is a better place, on average, than it used to be and getting better every year. But the trend to authoritarianism in the West, together with the increasing wealth gap, is worrying. Historically this produces violent revolutions - the rich get richer, and pass increasingly draconian laws to contain the anger of the rest of society, until the point where it cannot be contained and the rich get slaughtered in a revolution. I find it unbelievable that we're headed there, and yet cannot deny the evidence.

Animats 3y ago

> I was explaining to an American recently about Peelian Principles, and the idea that the police are just normal citizens who are employed to deal with crime and order blew his mind. Right. The classic legal view of police power is that the only extra authority police have is the authority to arrest on suspicion. Anyone has the authority to arrest if they witness a felony. This worked in the UK until the second half of the 19th century, before handguns were common. A group of citizens could detain a crook. See "Hue and cry". (Handguns didn't work very well until the second half of the 19th century, with the development of all-metal cartridges and revolvers. Handguns before that were single shot, high-maintenance, rather fussy to use, and often misfired. Most criminals used reliable knives or clubs.)

crimsoneer 3y ago

Honestly, I think "fast turning into a fascist state" is... a bit strong. Yes, the government is passing laws that reduce the threshold for protest to be stopped, but we still have free elections and stuff.

marcus_holmes 3y ago
I was quoting Craig Murray, kinda. I remember the Poll Tax riots, and how they affected the decision on that policy. Real, substantive, change to the government's thinking based on public protest. That couldn't happen today because of the change in laws - the protests would be stopped before they ever started, and wouldn't turn into riots (in part because police tactics have changed and they no longer try to turn protests into riots). I'm a huge optimist about the future. I believe the world is a better place, on average, than it used to be and getting better every year. But the trend to authoritarianism in the West, together with the increasing wealth gap, is worrying. Historically this produces violent revolutions - the rich get richer, and pass increasingly draconian laws to contain the anger of the rest of society, until the point where it cannot be contained and the rich get slaughtered in a revolution. I find it unbelievable that we're headed there, and yet cannot deny the evidence.