5 ms·

Pretty good argument but it has one fatal flaw. People can memorize the Declaration of Independence too. Or Harry Potter. If people mostly recite HP from memory

by zulban 3y ago

Pretty good argument but it has one fatal flaw. People can memorize the Declaration of Independence too. Or Harry Potter. If people mostly recite HP from memory but apply enough creative changes, it's not copyright infringement. So proving a system can memorize and recite proves nothing.

elemos 3y ago
How does this make sense? Memorizing and then reciting copyrighted works is still infringement in a lot of commercial contexts.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  reciting is violation of copyright creatively transform and apply for some tasks maybe not violation
- MattRix 3y ago
  The reciting part is illegal, but as long as it is trained not to recite things in full (or to whatever limit the law determines), then it should be fine.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    Try publishing Harry Potter but changing all the proper nouns and use synonyms for all the adjectives. It's gonna be copyright infringement. You can even cut a few scenes and make up a few scenes entirely, too. You're still getting busted.
    - MattRix 3y ago
      Yes, that’s why I am saying they will have to ensure the LLM doesn’t do that.
Riverheart 3y ago
These aren’t people. Just because we can find commonalities in learning and memorization does not mean we can ignore everything else that differs.
kmod 3y ago
"copying" != "copyright infringement": I'm just saying that the LLMs are copying, and I'm not getting into the legal/societal question of whether we want that to be illegal or not. We as a society have determined that certain sorts of non-consensual copying are allowed: "fair use" broadly, and maybe you can consider "mental copying" in this category. Maybe we'll add LLM training to the list? It's not like copyright rules are a law of nature: we created them to try to produce the society that we want, and this is an ongoing process. Again, I think there are fascinating questions 1) does LLM training violate existing copyright law + case law or does it maybe fall under a fair use exemption, and 2) is that what we want. But I think "do LLMs make copies" is dull and trivial and I don't know why it comes up.
barbariangrunge 3y ago
The ai isn’t a person. Jesus. It’s not the same

by zulban 3y ago

elemos 3y ago

How does this make sense? Memorizing and then reciting copyrighted works is still infringement in a lot of commercial contexts.

riku_iki 3y ago
reciting is violation of copyright creatively transform and apply for some tasks maybe not violation
MattRix 3y ago
The reciting part is illegal, but as long as it is trained not to recite things in full (or to whatever limit the law determines), then it should be fine.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  Try publishing Harry Potter but changing all the proper nouns and use synonyms for all the adjectives. It's gonna be copyright infringement. You can even cut a few scenes and make up a few scenes entirely, too. You're still getting busted.
  - MattRix 3y ago
    Yes, that’s why I am saying they will have to ensure the LLM doesn’t do that.

Riverheart 3y ago

These aren’t people. Just because we can find commonalities in learning and memorization does not mean we can ignore everything else that differs.

kmod 3y ago

"copying" != "copyright infringement": I'm just saying that the LLMs are copying, and I'm not getting into the legal/societal question of whether we want that to be illegal or not. We as a society have determined that certain sorts of non-consensual copying are allowed: "fair use" broadly, and maybe you can consider "mental copying" in this category. Maybe we'll add LLM training to the list? It's not like copyright rules are a law of nature: we created them to try to produce the society that we want, and this is an ongoing process. Again, I think there are fascinating questions 1) does LLM training violate existing copyright law + case law or does it maybe fall under a fair use exemption, and 2) is that what we want. But I think "do LLMs make copies" is dull and trivial and I don't know why it comes up.

barbariangrunge 3y ago

The ai isn’t a person. Jesus. It’s not the same