5 ms·

We could fight about the actual value of the CPU, HDD, network, etc is. Not literally zero. The manpower to keep it running is a stronger argument, but I still

We could fight about the actual value of the CPU, HDD, network, etc is. Not literally zero. The manpower to keep it running is a stronger argument, but I still think it's missing the point. The real value is the community generated content, and yeah, that's a commons.

hinkley 3y ago
Subtract the fact that at least the serfs got to keep some of the net product of their labor while Reddit users get less than nothing and I think it all evens out.
- sigstoat 3y ago
  > while Reddit users get less than nothing those poor bastards, all chained to their computers, joylessly creating content for their overlords.
  - vitiral 3y ago
    That's actually pretty descriptive.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Reddit users get less than nothing? Then why were they using Reddit’s computers in the first place?
  - hinkley 3y ago
    From the owners. Everything they get is from the other users, and the moderators. Unless you enjoy ads. I mean occasionally they are funny.
MichaelZuo 3y ago
> The real value is the community generated content, and yeah, that's a commons. According to which court or government? I'm not familiar with every country, but I don't think a single G20 country or the UN has spelled out anything like that.
- stavrianos 3y ago
  I was absolutely not using the term in a legal sense. Is "commons" even a legal term? I suppose I should have said "should be a commons" - as in, a publicly generated and maintained 'good thing' (susceptible to tragedy).
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Okay, it's certainly an interesting idea to speculate about, maybe some country will recognize it in the future. Though it seems unlikely, unless most of the world agreed, considering WIPO and various other treaties which have been ratified. How is this relevant to the present issue regarding reddit?
    - stavrianos 3y ago
      In regards to the idea of reddit rent-seeking - the primary value of reddit is not something they create, it's something they _host_. It could be anywhere, but by dint of network effects, it happens to be there. Reddit is not valuable because it owns a serverfarm, or even because it employs people to maintain the serverfarm. It's valuable because it controls a cultural meetingpoint. Aggressive control of the meetingpoint (which it is able to do), is rent-seeking because reddit controls _access_ to the value, but does not create the value. You were making a point that reddit doesn't provide literally nothing. That's true, but it's a red herring. Reddit provides some things, but not the actually-important things. edit: I'm sorry, you were not making that point. I was responding to that point.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        > Reddit is not valuable because it owns a serverfarm, or even because it employs people to maintain the serverfarm. It's valuable because it controls a cultural meetingpoint. How did it come to control a cultural meeting point? Was it because they owned a server farm and employed people to create a website people wanted to use at the right time and the right place? > Reddit provides some things, but not the actually-important things. This will be easily proven by people moving from Reddit to an alternative. Or disproven by not moving to an alternative.
lost_tourist 3y ago
that value means nothing to the owners if they aren't making a profit. Nothing in life is free except parents' love.

hinkley 3y ago

Subtract the fact that at least the serfs got to keep some of the net product of their labor while Reddit users get less than nothing and I think it all evens out.

sigstoat 3y ago
> while Reddit users get less than nothing those poor bastards, all chained to their computers, joylessly creating content for their overlords.
- vitiral 3y ago
  That's actually pretty descriptive.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Reddit users get less than nothing? Then why were they using Reddit’s computers in the first place?
- hinkley 3y ago
  From the owners. Everything they get is from the other users, and the moderators. Unless you enjoy ads. I mean occasionally they are funny.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

> The real value is the community generated content, and yeah, that's a commons. According to which court or government? I'm not familiar with every country, but I don't think a single G20 country or the UN has spelled out anything like that.

stavrianos 3y ago
I was absolutely not using the term in a legal sense. Is "commons" even a legal term? I suppose I should have said "should be a commons" - as in, a publicly generated and maintained 'good thing' (susceptible to tragedy).
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Okay, it's certainly an interesting idea to speculate about, maybe some country will recognize it in the future. Though it seems unlikely, unless most of the world agreed, considering WIPO and various other treaties which have been ratified. How is this relevant to the present issue regarding reddit?
  - stavrianos 3y ago
    In regards to the idea of reddit rent-seeking - the primary value of reddit is not something they create, it's something they _host_. It could be anywhere, but by dint of network effects, it happens to be there. Reddit is not valuable because it owns a serverfarm, or even because it employs people to maintain the serverfarm. It's valuable because it controls a cultural meetingpoint. Aggressive control of the meetingpoint (which it is able to do), is rent-seeking because reddit controls _access_ to the value, but does not create the value. You were making a point that reddit doesn't provide literally nothing. That's true, but it's a red herring. Reddit provides some things, but not the actually-important things. edit: I'm sorry, you were not making that point. I was responding to that point.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      > Reddit is not valuable because it owns a serverfarm, or even because it employs people to maintain the serverfarm. It's valuable because it controls a cultural meetingpoint. How did it come to control a cultural meeting point? Was it because they owned a server farm and employed people to create a website people wanted to use at the right time and the right place? > Reddit provides some things, but not the actually-important things. This will be easily proven by people moving from Reddit to an alternative. Or disproven by not moving to an alternative.

lost_tourist 3y ago

that value means nothing to the owners if they aren't making a profit. Nothing in life is free except parents' love.