3 ms·

Let's not attack people through their looks.

by yreg 3y ago

heavyset_go 3y ago
Agreed.
zoogeny 3y ago
We play with tropes based on appearances within our culture. Consider Shrek. The story is made to subvert the trope that the ugly person is the villain, as it was in Disney movies. But the real point isn’t some Platonic view of Beauty. It is about expectations. Like how advertisers use people wearing lab coats to subliminally feed credibility into the words of actors. You may wish to be free of such bias, and you may even work to raise your own awareness and strive to critically examine the message of people. And let us all work towards such a world. But we should not pretend such a world exists today, despite our desires. It is a world that may exist in the future once we mature as a species. Until that day arrives, advertisers and political movements will use our biases against us. My claim isn’t that yudkowski is ugly, it is that he represents a trope that is being used to bias his message.
- benatkin 3y ago
  He didn't decide a whole lot about how he looks, except he wears a hat. His hair color is just how he was made, same with how his face looks. He appears to make an effort to look good just like most everyone else. If he was trying to look a certain way he might have tattoos or have died his hair. He doesn't, that I know of. You seem to be policing a small recent decision he made to wear a hat.
  - zoogeny 3y ago
    I didn’t create the meme of a neckbeard wearing a fedora. Know you meme entry [1] is 9 years old at this point. Just like I didn’t create the trope of a scientist wearing a white lab coat. But if someone is doing a 2 min video sketch of a scientist, it is a good visual aid to include a white lab coat to communicate to an audience the role of a character. And in the same way, a top hat would communicate a certain kind of character in a movie. In the same way, there is a communication of a particular kind of character with other hat choices. 1. https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/tips-fedora https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/tips-fedora
    - benatkin 3y ago
      > I didn’t create the meme of a neckbeard wearing a fedora. But why should he not be allowed to wear one? Again, you're policing. It's a discriminatory dick move.
      - zoogeny 3y ago
        Allowed? Where do I say he is or isn’t allowed? You must be trolling to so poorly represent what I’m saying. He can wear anything he wants. So can you. So can anyone. If he wants to, and for all I care, he can dress up like a clown. Or dress up like a jester. Or he could wear Gucci or Prada. Or wear steampunk leather outfits like he is in the world of mad max. Or he could go clean cut preppy. He can wear a fedora and a trilby on top of one another. But, by personal choice and temperament, he wants to dress as he dresses. It just so happens that his personal preference aligns with a particular trope. A particularly uncool trope in popular culture. I’m pointing out that alignment. I am not making him dress that way and I am not forcing culture to judge him.
      - maest 3y ago
        Fyi, this kind of knee jerk reaction to a not even that nuanced point the GP is making hurt this community. It takes a lot less effort to generate your superficial criticism than it takes the GP to reply. Fortunately, he did reply in a sibling post, but he didn't have to.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        benatkin 3y ago
        I didn't find your comment informative at all. I'm not buying this alternative reality where I'm trolling by pushing back on mocking someone's choice of a hat that is one of a limited number of common hat styles.
    - Avshalom 3y ago
      https://www.achewood.com/2004/11/01/title.html https://www.achewood.com/2004/11/01/title.html it was ehhem old hat by the early '00s
woooooo 3y ago
It's reality, and as much about mannerism as looks. OP wasn't attacking chomsky on a personal level, just pointing out how he's often perceived. It's sort of unfixable because the taste-makers at NYT and WaPo sorted themselves into the conformist camp so early in their lives that anyone outside that camp is trivially portrayable as "weird" to them.
lmm 3y ago
It's interesting how the people who pride themselves on how they're speaking up for the weak are the first and most vicious in bullying acceptable targets.
Cheezewheel 3y ago
Yud on one hand believes that AI is an actual *VERY LITERAL* existential humanity of which it is completely 100% paramount to get the rest of humanity on board with preventing our own destruction. And yet he doesn't think it is worth the effort to take off his trilby hat in order to come across as marginally more respectable to the average person? When the way he is choosing to present himself is undermining his own message then yes, it is worth bringing up.
- yreg 3y ago
  OP implied that Eliezer and Noam are one of the ugliest people alive. I'm very surprised so many people defend that comment and pretend it is relevant and discussion worthy.

Let's not attack people through their looks.

by yreg 3y ago

Let's not attack people through their looks.

heavyset_go 3y ago

Agreed.

zoogeny 3y ago

We play with tropes based on appearances within our culture. Consider Shrek. The story is made to subvert the trope that the ugly person is the villain, as it was in Disney movies. But the real point isn’t some Platonic view of Beauty. It is about expectations. Like how advertisers use people wearing lab coats to subliminally feed credibility into the words of actors. You may wish to be free of such bias, and you may even work to raise your own awareness and strive to critically examine the message of people. And let us all work towards such a world. But we should not pretend such a world exists today, despite our desires. It is a world that may exist in the future once we mature as a species. Until that day arrives, advertisers and political movements will use our biases against us. My claim isn’t that yudkowski is ugly, it is that he represents a trope that is being used to bias his message.

benatkin 3y ago
He didn't decide a whole lot about how he looks, except he wears a hat. His hair color is just how he was made, same with how his face looks. He appears to make an effort to look good just like most everyone else. If he was trying to look a certain way he might have tattoos or have died his hair. He doesn't, that I know of. You seem to be policing a small recent decision he made to wear a hat.
- zoogeny 3y ago
  I didn’t create the meme of a neckbeard wearing a fedora. Know you meme entry [1] is 9 years old at this point. Just like I didn’t create the trope of a scientist wearing a white lab coat. But if someone is doing a 2 min video sketch of a scientist, it is a good visual aid to include a white lab coat to communicate to an audience the role of a character. And in the same way, a top hat would communicate a certain kind of character in a movie. In the same way, there is a communication of a particular kind of character with other hat choices. 1. https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/tips-fedora https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/tips-fedora
  - benatkin 3y ago
    > I didn’t create the meme of a neckbeard wearing a fedora. But why should he not be allowed to wear one? Again, you're policing. It's a discriminatory dick move.
    - zoogeny 3y ago
      Allowed? Where do I say he is or isn’t allowed? You must be trolling to so poorly represent what I’m saying. He can wear anything he wants. So can you. So can anyone. If he wants to, and for all I care, he can dress up like a clown. Or dress up like a jester. Or he could wear Gucci or Prada. Or wear steampunk leather outfits like he is in the world of mad max. Or he could go clean cut preppy. He can wear a fedora and a trilby on top of one another. But, by personal choice and temperament, he wants to dress as he dresses. It just so happens that his personal preference aligns with a particular trope. A particularly uncool trope in popular culture. I’m pointing out that alignment. I am not making him dress that way and I am not forcing culture to judge him.
    - maest 3y ago
      Fyi, this kind of knee jerk reaction to a not even that nuanced point the GP is making hurt this community. It takes a lot less effort to generate your superficial criticism than it takes the GP to reply. Fortunately, he did reply in a sibling post, but he didn't have to.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - benatkin 3y ago
        I didn't find your comment informative at all. I'm not buying this alternative reality where I'm trolling by pushing back on mocking someone's choice of a hat that is one of a limited number of common hat styles.
  - Avshalom 3y ago
    https://www.achewood.com/2004/11/01/title.html https://www.achewood.com/2004/11/01/title.html it was ehhem old hat by the early '00s

woooooo 3y ago

It's reality, and as much about mannerism as looks. OP wasn't attacking chomsky on a personal level, just pointing out how he's often perceived. It's sort of unfixable because the taste-makers at NYT and WaPo sorted themselves into the conformist camp so early in their lives that anyone outside that camp is trivially portrayable as "weird" to them.

lmm 3y ago

It's interesting how the people who pride themselves on how they're speaking up for the weak are the first and most vicious in bullying acceptable targets.

Cheezewheel 3y ago

Yud on one hand believes that AI is an actual *VERY LITERAL* existential humanity of which it is completely 100% paramount to get the rest of humanity on board with preventing our own destruction. And yet he doesn't think it is worth the effort to take off his trilby hat in order to come across as marginally more respectable to the average person? When the way he is choosing to present himself is undermining his own message then yes, it is worth bringing up.

yreg 3y ago
OP implied that Eliezer and Noam are one of the ugliest people alive. I'm very surprised so many people defend that comment and pretend it is relevant and discussion worthy.