3 ms·

Germany does not use a global unique identifier like the social security number in the US. The Germans do not like such global identifier for people because the

by haukem 3y ago

Germany does not use a global unique identifier like the social security number in the US. The Germans do not like such global identifier for people because the the Nazis used them and data protection is very important in Germany.

r3drock 3y ago
This is in fact not correct. There are two unique identifiers for every german citizen, first the so called "Rentenversicherungsnummer" and the "Steueridentifikationsnummer". Both are assigned at birth.
- haukem 3y ago
  Yes that is correct, but they are not much used outside of the service they are intended for.
  - germanier 3y ago
    The Steuer-ID is now intended to be used as a global identifier. The law is already enacted, but there are still some technical questions open. See https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2021/04/registermodernisierungsgesetz-verkuendet.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/202...
    - usr1106 3y ago
      That's "propaganda" by the ministery, not answering many questions. They only claim that all government administration will become digital, smooth, and much cheaper. Is it allowed to use the Steuer-ID for non-government purposes?
      - germanier 3y ago
        An enacted law is not "propaganda", it's the law. You can ignore all the fluff around the factual statements if you like. The number is only intended to be used by government entities. The law restricts usage to census and communication with government entities (as well as already established tax-related use).
        lxgr 3y ago
        Which makes it completely useless for applications like credit scoring.
        usr1106 3y ago
        Absolutely. Credit scoring is a shady business and as a person educated in Germany I think shady business should be kept away from government information as much as possible.
        lxgr 3y ago
        A unique identifier is hardly "government information". In any case, Germany does not have one, yet Schufa (the German credit scoring agency) still exists and still is able to build profiles on everybody living in Germany. So what's the gain? Data mining operations like them will be able to perform good-enough matching based on fuzzy data like current and previous address; it just makes it more likely for errors to happen due to non-unique names and incorrectly merged or split credit profiles, and makes legitimate requests for your own data more difficult than necessary.
        usr1106 3y ago
        In Germany it is. Nobody else but government offices (federal, state, county, municipal) is allowed to use them. E.g. employers have access to them, but still they are legally required to only use an internal employee number for their internal operations. Creating one that is shared between private instances would require explicit consent by the citizen to every company to use it according to GDPR. Well, of course Schufa requires consent too, which is not truly a decision a citizen can make. If you don't agree I don't think you'd find any bank opening an account. But I do hope there will such a public outcry if anybody tried to start such surveillance again today, it would fail in the beginning. Like Google Streetview did. I am not convinced the Schufa score data quality is always very good. (Not living there I cannot request my own one, just a feeling.)
        3y ago
- usr1106 3y ago
  The usage of the Rentenversicherungsnummer is strictly limited by law, basically to pension-related administration. It cannot be legally used for general purpose. The Steuerindentifikationsnummer used to be strictly limited to tax purposes. Against original political promises the legislation has been changed 2 years ago, weakening the limitations. I am not familiar with the details.

by haukem 3y ago

r3drock 3y ago

This is in fact not correct. There are two unique identifiers for every german citizen, first the so called "Rentenversicherungsnummer" and the "Steueridentifikationsnummer". Both are assigned at birth.

haukem 3y ago
Yes that is correct, but they are not much used outside of the service they are intended for.
- germanier 3y ago
  The Steuer-ID is now intended to be used as a global identifier. The law is already enacted, but there are still some technical questions open. See https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2021/04/registermodernisierungsgesetz-verkuendet.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/202...
  - usr1106 3y ago
    That's "propaganda" by the ministery, not answering many questions. They only claim that all government administration will become digital, smooth, and much cheaper. Is it allowed to use the Steuer-ID for non-government purposes?
    - germanier 3y ago
      An enacted law is not "propaganda", it's the law. You can ignore all the fluff around the factual statements if you like. The number is only intended to be used by government entities. The law restricts usage to census and communication with government entities (as well as already established tax-related use).
      - lxgr 3y ago
        Which makes it completely useless for applications like credit scoring.
        usr1106 3y ago
        Absolutely. Credit scoring is a shady business and as a person educated in Germany I think shady business should be kept away from government information as much as possible.
        lxgr 3y ago
        A unique identifier is hardly "government information". In any case, Germany does not have one, yet Schufa (the German credit scoring agency) still exists and still is able to build profiles on everybody living in Germany. So what's the gain? Data mining operations like them will be able to perform good-enough matching based on fuzzy data like current and previous address; it just makes it more likely for errors to happen due to non-unique names and incorrectly merged or split credit profiles, and makes legitimate requests for your own data more difficult than necessary.
        usr1106 3y ago
        In Germany it is. Nobody else but government offices (federal, state, county, municipal) is allowed to use them. E.g. employers have access to them, but still they are legally required to only use an internal employee number for their internal operations. Creating one that is shared between private instances would require explicit consent by the citizen to every company to use it according to GDPR. Well, of course Schufa requires consent too, which is not truly a decision a citizen can make. If you don't agree I don't think you'd find any bank opening an account. But I do hope there will such a public outcry if anybody tried to start such surveillance again today, it would fail in the beginning. Like Google Streetview did. I am not convinced the Schufa score data quality is always very good. (Not living there I cannot request my own one, just a feeling.)
        3y ago
usr1106 3y ago
The usage of the Rentenversicherungsnummer is strictly limited by law, basically to pension-related administration. It cannot be legally used for general purpose. The Steuerindentifikationsnummer used to be strictly limited to tax purposes. Against original political promises the legislation has been changed 2 years ago, weakening the limitations. I am not familiar with the details.