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Not to hate on Sweden at all but these articles always read like they've been written by the country in questions PR arm of government. I have a couple of frie

Not to hate on Sweden at all but these articles always read like they've been written by the country in questions PR arm of government. I have a couple of friends that moved from the US to Sweden and absolutely hated it and ended up moving back to the US after ~3 years. My wife worked with a woman that moved to [redacted] from the US and while she was okay with it her husband hated [redacted]. Whereas I, a born and raised Brit, moved from the UK to [redacted] in 2018 and absolutely love it here. On the flip side I tried living in the US for two years back in my twenties and it was awful. I hated almost every minute of my time there. My sister also has been working in the US for the past 3 years on a work placement and cannot wait to leave in August. That isn't to say the US is an awful place. It is easily one of my favourite places to go on holiday but I am not compatible with it as a home. Just as [redacted] was not compatible with the husband of my wife's colleague. And Sweden was not compatible with my friends. In reality these kind of articles are basically worthless as everyone is different. IMHO you can't really learn anything of value from such pieces.

was_a_dev 3y ago
I think a lot of people don't realise the large cultural differences between the US and Europe. Most Brits (myself included) fall into this due to the lack of language barrier. In my opinion, British culture aligns better to Europe than the US (for obvious geographical reasons)
- satysin 3y ago
  I very much agree with this. While [redacted] and the UK don't share a language like the US and UK do I have found the [redacted] and Brits are much more alike than most people realise. Far more so than I found as a Brit and Americans. Obviously not saying one is better than the other. They're just different and I felt very much the "alien" when in America whereas I felt "at home" in [redacted] in just a few months. I guess there is a lot of similarities in way of life in the UK and in [redacted]. Healthcare is very similar. Education isn't too different. General support for the social care system is the same. Etc. So while the language is different the overall cultural differences between [redacted] and the UK are tiny having seen it first hand. Funny story but when I've meet people back in the UK and they learn I moved to [redacted] they always ask how hard I found it and are shocked when I say the [redacted] and the Brits are really similar so it wasn't really hard at all. Some are almost offended by it hah.
  - was_a_dev 3y ago
    You are correct it is a difference rather than an advantage. Moving to France works well because the French are passionate about their language. Therefore you must learn French to thrive. This can be harder in other European countries where English is spoken so proficiently that learning the native language is difficult to do - and therefore avoided
- tpmx 3y ago
  Speaking of Brits and Swedes: A stereotypical antipattern: 1. A Swedish girl and a British guy meet and start living together in Sweden. (Yes, somehow, it tends to be that gender config.) 2. Since "everyone in Sweden" speak at least a little English, the guy doesn't bother learning Swedish. 3. The British guy can't get a job since he doesn't speak Swedish. 4. The British guy gets bitter and starts posting in the forums at thelocal.se, (run by bitter UK socialists who went through the same thing and are now super angry at Sweden). 5. The couple breaks up, hopefully before having kids together. 6. ... Culture clash is real.
  - was_a_dev 3y ago
    The issue here is point #2. We Brits already have a cultural apathy for learning other languages. And as you have said theres enough proficiency in English in Sweeden, that combines to make it easy for English speakers to take the easy option. I don't understand how you can truly live in a country without speaking the language.
    - kjetijor 3y ago
      It's likely not just the English speakers - assuming this is the same way as it is in Norway - even if you tried to learn the language, you'll still struggle with the native speakers "just using English as it's more efficient with both being proficient". I witnessed this in the workplace, and I heard plenty of anecdotes from the local college where PhD students struggling with learning Norwegian for the same reason, and last but not least I've done this myself.
      - the_third_wave 3y ago
        I moved to Sweden from the Netherlands - i.e. another Germanic-language country just like (most of) the U.K. - and learned Swedish quite rapidly. I may use a non-Swedish word every now and then for something for which I do not know a Swedish term or where the Swedish term does not cover the concept I'm trying to convey but I do not "just use English" other than with my (Swedish) wife [1] which makes it far easier to join ongoing conversations without causing a stir by using English. Sure, most people speak passable English here but breaking into a conversation in Swedish using another language does tend to break the flow and changes the discourse. [1] I'm Dutch, she's Swedish/French, when we met she lived in the U.K. and did/does not speak a word of Dutch nor did I speak any Swedish. I learned Swedish by myself but hardly ever use it at home other than when my children have friends over - I speak English with my wife, Dutch with my children and Swedish with the rest. Both children went/go to a French school to make the picture complete.
nerdchum 3y ago
Can you elaborate on what makes France a good home? I suspect it's the culture, and work life balance, and possibly good food and drink, and emphasis on small businesses over big chain corporation. but would love to hear more. I don't like the US for all those reasons and am looking for a new place possibly.
- _l4jh 3y ago
  Obviously this is just my personal experience but I just love the mentality of the [redacted]. Work life balance is one. They don't take shit from work and I love it. 2 hour lunch breaks are the norm here for example. The interesting thing is somehow the [redacted] are more productive vs our UK counterparts that work, on average, 7.2 hours more per week than we do. How does that work?! The general family first attitude I love. The weather is also a nice bonus. When I pick my kid up from school more often than not one of the other dads will suggest we go play boules (pétanque) for half an hour and just chat about life. Oh neighbours randomly pop round with extra food or drink they had they thought we might like. I had a neighbour knock at the weekend as they had some Cheddar left over from a party the day before and they know I like Cheddar as a british person so figured I would want it more than they did lmao. Just silly things but it really brings a smile to my face. Of course some of this is I am just fortunate to live in a nice area with nice people but I lived in a nice area with nice people in the UK too and unless I knew someone quite well they would never pop over with spare cheese, etc. I am sure I could have such an experience in the UK but my 35 years living there I never had it whereas it is just the norm here in [redacted], apparently. Healthcare is absolutely fucking fantastic too. I had some health issues the past few years after slipping a disc in my low back. I had an MRI within a few days during the height of the pandemic with lockdown in effect. Saw the consultant 10 minutes after the MRI who started me on treatment and it was superb. I compare this to my cousin that needed an MRI for very severe migraines and had to wait 9 weeks for! Also I am always able to get an appointment with my GP the same day (or very worst the next day if I call after lunch for example). Compared to trying to get an appointment with my GP back in the UK it is just so damn easy. I used to get additional stress trying to book a GP appointment when I lived in [redacted]. I could go on but I should mention some not so great things too... The education system needs reform. It isn't bad but it is dated. They need to move beyond rote memorisation of 500 year old poems every week and embrace a bit more modern technology but... They have a weird almost fetish like attitude towards no screens for kids. Like I have witnessed teachers and others get giddy with excitement when talking about no screen time. It is very bizarre to me in a world where almost everyone uses a screen for work in some capacity. Also deliveries here are the absolute worst. I dread having a package delivered by Colissimo or La Poste. Honestly we only moved because of Brexit but we're very glad we did as it has been wonderful for our family. It was hard with the pandemic as travel was restricted but nobody had an easy time of it during the lockdowns so I can't fault anyone for that. If you want to chat more feel free to drop me an email [redacted] forwards to my proper address just pop hacker news in the subject so it doesn't get swallowed :) Edit: Sacré bleu! I almost forgot... I have a fantastic boulangerie just a few minutes walk from my house and that is true of pretty much every house we looked at. Honestly it is quite hard to find a house that doesn't have a boulangerie within a 5 minute walk. At least in all the places we looked which is just outside of [redacted].
legitster 3y ago
One issue is that people who move to other countries almost always settle in major cities. Cities can be great, but they can also be some of the most inhospitable places on Earth no matter what country you are in. So you are almost always comparing your comfortable home environment (usually suburban in some way) against really urban environments. And it goes both ways. A French person is going to have as bad a time in D.C. just as much as an American is going to have a bad time moving to Paris. In their respective home countries, neither person would probably prefer the same arrangement for themselves!

was_a_dev 3y ago

I think a lot of people don't realise the large cultural differences between the US and Europe. Most Brits (myself included) fall into this due to the lack of language barrier. In my opinion, British culture aligns better to Europe than the US (for obvious geographical reasons)

satysin 3y ago
I very much agree with this. While [redacted] and the UK don't share a language like the US and UK do I have found the [redacted] and Brits are much more alike than most people realise. Far more so than I found as a Brit and Americans. Obviously not saying one is better than the other. They're just different and I felt very much the "alien" when in America whereas I felt "at home" in [redacted] in just a few months. I guess there is a lot of similarities in way of life in the UK and in [redacted]. Healthcare is very similar. Education isn't too different. General support for the social care system is the same. Etc. So while the language is different the overall cultural differences between [redacted] and the UK are tiny having seen it first hand. Funny story but when I've meet people back in the UK and they learn I moved to [redacted] they always ask how hard I found it and are shocked when I say the [redacted] and the Brits are really similar so it wasn't really hard at all. Some are almost offended by it hah.
- was_a_dev 3y ago
  You are correct it is a difference rather than an advantage. Moving to France works well because the French are passionate about their language. Therefore you must learn French to thrive. This can be harder in other European countries where English is spoken so proficiently that learning the native language is difficult to do - and therefore avoided
tpmx 3y ago
Speaking of Brits and Swedes: A stereotypical antipattern: 1. A Swedish girl and a British guy meet and start living together in Sweden. (Yes, somehow, it tends to be that gender config.) 2. Since "everyone in Sweden" speak at least a little English, the guy doesn't bother learning Swedish. 3. The British guy can't get a job since he doesn't speak Swedish. 4. The British guy gets bitter and starts posting in the forums at thelocal.se, (run by bitter UK socialists who went through the same thing and are now super angry at Sweden). 5. The couple breaks up, hopefully before having kids together. 6. ... Culture clash is real.
- was_a_dev 3y ago
  The issue here is point #2. We Brits already have a cultural apathy for learning other languages. And as you have said theres enough proficiency in English in Sweeden, that combines to make it easy for English speakers to take the easy option. I don't understand how you can truly live in a country without speaking the language.
  - kjetijor 3y ago
    It's likely not just the English speakers - assuming this is the same way as it is in Norway - even if you tried to learn the language, you'll still struggle with the native speakers "just using English as it's more efficient with both being proficient". I witnessed this in the workplace, and I heard plenty of anecdotes from the local college where PhD students struggling with learning Norwegian for the same reason, and last but not least I've done this myself.
    - the_third_wave 3y ago
      I moved to Sweden from the Netherlands - i.e. another Germanic-language country just like (most of) the U.K. - and learned Swedish quite rapidly. I may use a non-Swedish word every now and then for something for which I do not know a Swedish term or where the Swedish term does not cover the concept I'm trying to convey but I do not "just use English" other than with my (Swedish) wife [1] which makes it far easier to join ongoing conversations without causing a stir by using English. Sure, most people speak passable English here but breaking into a conversation in Swedish using another language does tend to break the flow and changes the discourse. [1] I'm Dutch, she's Swedish/French, when we met she lived in the U.K. and did/does not speak a word of Dutch nor did I speak any Swedish. I learned Swedish by myself but hardly ever use it at home other than when my children have friends over - I speak English with my wife, Dutch with my children and Swedish with the rest. Both children went/go to a French school to make the picture complete.

nerdchum 3y ago

Can you elaborate on what makes France a good home? I suspect it's the culture, and work life balance, and possibly good food and drink, and emphasis on small businesses over big chain corporation. but would love to hear more. I don't like the US for all those reasons and am looking for a new place possibly.

_l4jh 3y ago
Obviously this is just my personal experience but I just love the mentality of the [redacted]. Work life balance is one. They don't take shit from work and I love it. 2 hour lunch breaks are the norm here for example. The interesting thing is somehow the [redacted] are more productive vs our UK counterparts that work, on average, 7.2 hours more per week than we do. How does that work?! The general family first attitude I love. The weather is also a nice bonus. When I pick my kid up from school more often than not one of the other dads will suggest we go play boules (pétanque) for half an hour and just chat about life. Oh neighbours randomly pop round with extra food or drink they had they thought we might like. I had a neighbour knock at the weekend as they had some Cheddar left over from a party the day before and they know I like Cheddar as a british person so figured I would want it more than they did lmao. Just silly things but it really brings a smile to my face. Of course some of this is I am just fortunate to live in a nice area with nice people but I lived in a nice area with nice people in the UK too and unless I knew someone quite well they would never pop over with spare cheese, etc. I am sure I could have such an experience in the UK but my 35 years living there I never had it whereas it is just the norm here in [redacted], apparently. Healthcare is absolutely fucking fantastic too. I had some health issues the past few years after slipping a disc in my low back. I had an MRI within a few days during the height of the pandemic with lockdown in effect. Saw the consultant 10 minutes after the MRI who started me on treatment and it was superb. I compare this to my cousin that needed an MRI for very severe migraines and had to wait 9 weeks for! Also I am always able to get an appointment with my GP the same day (or very worst the next day if I call after lunch for example). Compared to trying to get an appointment with my GP back in the UK it is just so damn easy. I used to get additional stress trying to book a GP appointment when I lived in [redacted]. I could go on but I should mention some not so great things too... The education system needs reform. It isn't bad but it is dated. They need to move beyond rote memorisation of 500 year old poems every week and embrace a bit more modern technology but... They have a weird almost fetish like attitude towards no screens for kids. Like I have witnessed teachers and others get giddy with excitement when talking about no screen time. It is very bizarre to me in a world where almost everyone uses a screen for work in some capacity. Also deliveries here are the absolute worst. I dread having a package delivered by Colissimo or La Poste. Honestly we only moved because of Brexit but we're very glad we did as it has been wonderful for our family. It was hard with the pandemic as travel was restricted but nobody had an easy time of it during the lockdowns so I can't fault anyone for that. If you want to chat more feel free to drop me an email [redacted] forwards to my proper address just pop hacker news in the subject so it doesn't get swallowed :) Edit: Sacré bleu! I almost forgot... I have a fantastic boulangerie just a few minutes walk from my house and that is true of pretty much every house we looked at. Honestly it is quite hard to find a house that doesn't have a boulangerie within a 5 minute walk. At least in all the places we looked which is just outside of [redacted].

legitster 3y ago

One issue is that people who move to other countries almost always settle in major cities. Cities can be great, but they can also be some of the most inhospitable places on Earth no matter what country you are in. So you are almost always comparing your comfortable home environment (usually suburban in some way) against really urban environments. And it goes both ways. A French person is going to have as bad a time in D.C. just as much as an American is going to have a bad time moving to Paris. In their respective home countries, neither person would probably prefer the same arrangement for themselves!